CWU: Agreement reached on the biggest ever National uplift in Part time contracted hours

[TopperGas]

Acca yes we want to make sure some are permanent, however again this is complex as the USO will reduce jobs and if you make further uplifts in full time which may become surplus than this adds to the VR costs of the company. So we would not rule out variations of contracts which can be converted when a unit goes live on the USO.

They could deal with some of that surplus by moving the surplus staff to other offices

That only works if the staff concerned want to move rather than take VR?

[Dexydog]

Can anyone post the list of offices in a different format- doesn't open for me, quite an old phone so maybe doesn't support the original format.

[Pidleypoo]

100 in Doncaster ,61 in Bristol Mail Centre , 130 in North West Hub , 100 in Midlands Hub, 94 in South Midlands Mail Centre ,57 in Crow Lane Northampton,53 in Sheffield Mail Centre , 53 in Lincoln Delivery unit ,48 in North Tyneside , 34 in Colchester.

Only on this site would we make a good news story for 8500 part time to full time feel like it is a disaster.

Lincoln is only getting 4 on the list given out.

Edit , it does say 52.

[tramssirhc]

You've got some front having a pop at us. 11,000 the CWU said. This isn't a 'good news' story. It's blatant opportunism. What sort of union let's it's members linger on temporary contracts, clinging on for years? What sort of union watches the duty structure get binned to 'keep our members in work during the pandemic' and years later still hasn't fought to get them back? What sort of union never advised it members they had a legal claim to the hours they were working? The CWU is a disgrace.

But surely you have been organising yourselves to do this?
Surely your rank and file committees have put right all the wrongs you have listed?

As you'll know full well the CWU does everything it can to obstruct rank and file committees.

[clashcityrocker]

As you'll know full well the CWU does everything it can to obstruct rank and file committees.

As you know full well the rank and file committees have never done anything and never will achieve anything.

[scotchy1962]

Norris given the numbers of variations in some offices and the feedback , yes I believe the majority would have been done on seniority. It is the local and Branch role to ensure it is done in fair basis on seniority order.

In fact I was at all local reps meeting in York today of all the North East Reps and one of the reps is someone who will be uplifted he believed he was already on a permanent contract and he review the other 12 names on the list and agreed they all were the most senior.

Now I cannot guarantee this is the case in every single unit but here is the issue if you suddenly say to someone who has been working a variation for some time and maybe 4 of 5 years we giving it to someone senior and your going back on part time hours when this individual believed they were permanent and may have built their lifestyle/ rent mortgage based on thinking they had a permanent contract so it is not as easy as some would assume.

Acca yes we want to make sure some are permanent, however again this is complex as the USO will reduce jobs and if you make further uplifts in full time which may become surplus than this adds to the VR costs of the company. So we would not rule out variations of contracts which can be converted when a unit goes live on the USO.

Again Martin let me thank you for coming on here and giving us this info, i know that this is about uplifts in hours but what i am interested in is the USO and how anyone can believe it is going to lead to wholesale job losses.
All the proposed changes have been highlighted and the trials will be starting sometime this year, but i for the life of me cannot in anyway see how they are going to need less staff, we currently cannot meet the USO requirements so how on earth delivering 2c only 3 days a week along with the parcels still is going to somehow require less staff baffles me. Two days mail on current duties would still mean only 50% delivered 1 day and the other half the next and that only works if you can complete in your duty time. RM are trying for every parcel contract going, which they should be, but how are we at the coalface meant to cope. A lot of the time we can only get tracked parcels done in our duty time so i am interested in what you think.
I am just a simple postie so any reply in laymans terms.

[posted]

i keep seeing this on teh various posts about any change being announced/introduced.

We have this limited mindset of assuming the change is exactly in the context of what and how we understand and experience soemthing today.

So as if today we just got told to leave our 2c letters in teh frame and somebody will deliver them tomorrow (along with 2c that arrives in DO tomorrow). Obviously if that's exactly how it happened then yes... tomorrow is going to be a cr*p day.

Even I don't know what the changes are but what I do know is it won't be as simple as what's mentioned above. There will have to be some changes happening further upstream. Some that have already been in place for a while like DTS. There will have to be more changes that we've had in the past like delivery revisions to redesign the routes. There are changes in teh pipeline like uplift in hours.

there's probably other stuff too but we need to stop this doomsday thinking if we don't have the full info to hand.
Remember 2C is actually a 2-3 working day product. Internally we try to deliver on Day C but actually we have until Day D to deliver it.

[Perseus]

Norris given the numbers of variations in some offices and the feedback , yes I believe the majority would have been done on seniority. It is the local and Branch role to ensure it is done in fair basis on seniority order.

In fact I was at all local reps meeting in York today of all the North East Reps and one of the reps is someone who will be uplifted he believed he was already on a permanent contract and he review the other 12 names on the list and agreed they all were the most senior.

Now I cannot guarantee this is the case in every single unit but here is the issue if you suddenly say to someone who has been working a variation for some time and maybe 4 of 5 years we giving it to someone senior and your going back on part time hours when this individual believed they were permanent and may have built their lifestyle/ rent mortgage based on thinking they had a permanent contract so it is not as easy as some would assume.

Acca yes we want to make sure some are permanent, however again this is complex as the USO will reduce jobs and if you make further uplifts in full time which may become surplus than this adds to the VR costs of the company. So we would not rule out variations of contracts which can be converted when a unit goes live on the USO.

Again Martin let me thank you for coming on here and giving us this info, i know that this is about uplifts in hours but what i am interested in is the USO and how anyone can believe it is going to lead to wholesale job losses.
All the proposed changes have been highlighted and the trials will be starting sometime this year, but i for the life of me cannot in anyway see how they are going to need less staff, we currently cannot meet the USO requirements so how on earth delivering 2c only 3 days a week along with the parcels still is going to somehow require less staff baffles me. Two days mail on current duties would still mean only 50% delivered 1 day and the other half the next and that only works if you can complete in your duty time. RM are trying for every parcel contract going, which they should be, but how are we at the coalface meant to cope. A lot of the time we can only get tracked parcels done in our duty time so i am interested in what you think.
I am just a simple postie so any reply in laymans terms.

You've kind of answered your own question - you are looking at it from your offices point of view which clearly already has vacancies. It will 'work' better in offices that are currently level on staff - an office fully staffed, clearing at the moment then moving to this new system will clearly need less staff to do it. Your office being short on staff, like many others, is a separate issue.

[scotchy1962]

Norris given the numbers of variations in some offices and the feedback , yes I believe the majority would have been done on seniority. It is the local and Branch role to ensure it is done in fair basis on seniority order.

In fact I was at all local reps meeting in York today of all the North East Reps and one of the reps is someone who will be uplifted he believed he was already on a permanent contract and he review the other 12 names on the list and agreed they all were the most senior.

Now I cannot guarantee this is the case in every single unit but here is the issue if you suddenly say to someone who has been working a variation for some time and maybe 4 of 5 years we giving it to someone senior and your going back on part time hours when this individual believed they were permanent and may have built their lifestyle/ rent mortgage based on thinking they had a permanent contract so it is not as easy as some would assume.

Acca yes we want to make sure some are permanent, however again this is complex as the USO will reduce jobs and if you make further uplifts in full time which may become surplus than this adds to the VR costs of the company. So we would not rule out variations of contracts which can be converted when a unit goes live on the USO.

Again Martin let me thank you for coming on here and giving us this info, i know that this is about uplifts in hours but what i am interested in is the USO and how anyone can believe it is going to lead to wholesale job losses.
All the proposed changes have been highlighted and the trials will be starting sometime this year, but i for the life of me cannot in anyway see how they are going to need less staff, we currently cannot meet the USO requirements so how on earth delivering 2c only 3 days a week along with the parcels still is going to somehow require less staff baffles me. Two days mail on current duties would still mean only 50% delivered 1 day and the other half the next and that only works if you can complete in your duty time. RM are trying for every parcel contract going, which they should be, but how are we at the coalface meant to cope. A lot of the time we can only get tracked parcels done in our duty time so i am interested in what you think.
I am just a simple postie so any reply in laymans terms.

You've kind of answered your own question - you are looking at it from your offices point of view which clearly already has vacancies. It will 'work' better in offices that are currently level on staff - an office fully staffed, clearing at the moment then moving to this new system will clearly need less staff to do it. Your office being short on staff, like many others, is a separate issue.

Not sure what gave you the opinion that my office already has vacancies, we are level on staff, duties are to big to get anywhere near delivered in the duty time, most are over a hour too long on a heavy day and only get completed with o/t.
I most certainly don't want or need o/t and also feel it defeats the purpose if o/t is required, the job needs to be manageable under any circumstance or it won't be workable, it's how we get there that will be the problem.

[Perseus]

Norris given the numbers of variations in some offices and the feedback , yes I believe the majority would have been done on seniority. It is the local and Branch role to ensure it is done in fair basis on seniority order.

In fact I was at all local reps meeting in York today of all the North East Reps and one of the reps is someone who will be uplifted he believed he was already on a permanent contract and he review the other 12 names on the list and agreed they all were the most senior.

Now I cannot guarantee this is the case in every single unit but here is the issue if you suddenly say to someone who has been working a variation for some time and maybe 4 of 5 years we giving it to someone senior and your going back on part time hours when this individual believed they were permanent and may have built their lifestyle/ rent mortgage based on thinking they had a permanent contract so it is not as easy as some would assume.

Acca yes we want to make sure some are permanent, however again this is complex as the USO will reduce jobs and if you make further uplifts in full time which may become surplus than this adds to the VR costs of the company. So we would not rule out variations of contracts which can be converted when a unit goes live on the USO.

Again Martin let me thank you for coming on here and giving us this info, i know that this is about uplifts in hours but what i am interested in is the USO and how anyone can believe it is going to lead to wholesale job losses.
All the proposed changes have been highlighted and the trials will be starting sometime this year, but i for the life of me cannot in anyway see how they are going to need less staff, we currently cannot meet the USO requirements so how on earth delivering 2c only 3 days a week along with the parcels still is going to somehow require less staff baffles me. Two days mail on current duties would still mean only 50% delivered 1 day and the other half the next and that only works if you can complete in your duty time. RM are trying for every parcel contract going, which they should be, but how are we at the coalface meant to cope. A lot of the time we can only get tracked parcels done in our duty time so i am interested in what you think.
I am just a simple postie so any reply in laymans terms.

You've kind of answered your own question - you are looking at it from your offices point of view which clearly already has vacancies. It will 'work' better in offices that are currently level on staff - an office fully staffed, clearing at the moment then moving to this new system will clearly need less staff to do it. Your office being short on staff, like many others, is a separate issue.

Not sure what gave you the opinion that my office already has vacancies, we are level on staff, duties are to big to get anywhere near delivered in the duty time, most are over a hour too long on a heavy day and only get completed with o/t.
I most certainly don't want or need o/t and also feel it defeats the purpose if o/t is required, the job needs to be manageable under any circumstance or it won't be workable, it's how we get there that will be the problem.

Well look at it another way, you don't have enough staff to complete all the work in your office on a daily basis. All the duties that are an hour too long - if they were to be fixed tomorrow, you'd need extra staff to take on that work, no? The USO reform is going to remove work from offices - in a lean office like yours it will take hours away, and most likely help with things like duties being an hour too long. In an office where staff are completing every day, moving to 2nd class 5 times a fortnight and parcels only on a Saturday, jobs, not hours will clearly go.

[scotchy1962]

You sound very confident about this USO reform, do you know something we don't?
How long have you worked here and when have you last seen this bunch get anything right?
If you have more than 5 yrs experience then you haven't learned anything if you believe the USO reform is a winner, if it's less i am prepared to give you a bye ball.

[Dexydog]

Asked my lino today what chance I have of an EVR (part time, regular overtime, never once been offered a temporary contract).
He said zero chance there's no money from what he's heard.
Didn't know anything about 11k part timers going full time.
Someone, somewhere, is telling porkies.
None of this adds up.

[Perseus]

You sound very confident about this USO reform, do you know something we don't?
How long have you worked here and when have you last seen this bunch get anything right?
If you have more than 5 yrs experience then you haven't learned anything if you believe the USO reform is a winner, if it's less i am prepared to give you a bye ball.

Like everything, how anything is implemented is key and yes, Royal Mail isn't exactly known for managing change.

I know nothing more than anyone else on here, but it seems pretty obvious that if we go from 2nd class every day with a 6 day USO to 2nd class 5 times a fortnight and parcels only on a Saturday, it will take less hours to do so? Taking out less to deliver, in most cases, means it can get done it less time?

Take your office for example, I have no idea if you work a shared van, HCT or single van duty, or whatever else there may be.
Lets take a shared van for instance that currently needs to go 1hr over to complete. If you are delivering all of one duty, all letters, packets etc, but only 1st class letters and packets/specials on the second duty - would you not think that comfortably eats into that 1hr you need to go over? Next time you sort a frame, count how many first class letters there are - there will be a handful.

[Pidleypoo]

Just got to say that some office’s and definitely the one I’m in more or less are doing what we all will be doing by next year.

It’s been one delivery of the pairing and tracked off the other one for ages now and the deliveries are so big that it’s not always possible to do that.

Each delivery on average takes about 3.5 hours between 2 so on average 7 hours outdoors between 2 if you did all of it.

Most days we get out and have about 4-4.5 hours to do however much we do.

All the assumed changes will do is is make sure that every single day will have a heavy workload and higher call rate.

I’ve been in more than one office and in in my honest opinion, some of you are in for a massive shock and some of you not so much.

[ted_e_bear]

There's a CWU live update in 5 minutes at 5pm, this subject is covered so you'll be able to ask any questions
Dear Members,

We’ve got lots to talk about after the massive breakthrough announced just before Christmas – the agreement with EP Group.

Join us today at 5pm as Deputy General Secretary (Postal) Martin Walsh breaks down the agreement, and the recent win for CWU members with 11,0000 workers securing additional contractual hours and over 7,000 moving from part-time to full-time!

This is a big step forward, but we know there are lots of questions. That’s why Martin will be on hand to give us the latest updates and answer your most frequently asked questions in a live Q&A. He’ll cover overtime, quality of service, Saturday deliveries and much more.

It’s going to be a busy session, so make sure you join us at 5pm. You can watch it live here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kD5jlXSImE4

See you there!

Chris Webb
Head of Communications

Martin Walsh
Deputy General Secretary (Postal)