CWU: Agreement reached on the biggest ever National uplift in Part time contracted hours

[scotchy1962]

Norris this is true.

In the vast majority of cases and we have the information the variation was offered in seniority order.

The question is if the most senior person rejected it 3 years ago and the individual who accepted it should now at the time they could be made full time give it to the more senior person who rejected the offer 3 years ago ! Is that really fair ?

I believe in seniority but it has never been as clear cut as some make it out to be :

Before age discrimination VRs were given to those age 55 to 65 regardless of whether they were more senior than someone below the age of 55.

Prior to the Way Forward Mail Centres had a different seniority list for Drivers and processing, PHGs based on when you either became a driver or a PHG not when you joined Royal Mail.

Before the Way Forward If you transferred to another office you went to the bottom of the seniority list.

Since the Way Forward unless your duty has changed significantly you do not have to surrender it within a resign.

There will still be part timers made up based on seniority but if someone used their seniority previously to get a variation and has work those hours for months and years it goes against all fairness to say we now giving it to a more senior person who did not want it before.

I disagree we have 8552 part timers who have the opportunity to become full time which is the single biggest ever uplift of part timers and the USO will mean even more opportunities for part timers to increase their hours.

Firstly Martin let me thank you for putting your head above the parapet, not sure if it's wise but you have done it now.
I am not sure if i am being daft or we have a bit of a discrepancy, we started at 11,000 then went to 10,500 and now are at 8,500 or so. So exactly how many p/t workers are being offered a uplift?
When you start quoting figures please do it in laymans terms, if you don't it just appears you are trying to blind us with science. I know there are people who like a deep dive into figures, but the majority of us are just posties who like it simple and understandable.
I know it's off topic but i am sure you are aware of the continued uplift in parcels and the o/t ban resulting in a nationwide implementation of what the company are looking for in the USO, while at the same time saying they are going to trial it at selected offices.
They are getting a nationwide trial at the moment without even trying to hide it.
We posties aren't stupid you know.

[Woody84]

Excuse my ignorance as a newbie…

What is a variation contract (is that the term?) and do you know if you have one

[Dexydog]

Excuse my ignorance as a newbie…

What is a variation contract (is that the term?) and do you know if you have one

Probably not if you're new.
It's someone who is part time and has their contract made up to more hours on a temporary basis to cover local needs.
There's lots of them, apparently.
A bit like that pig that just flew past my window.
Welcome to the madhouse.

[Acca Dacca]

They do exist

The problem is the majority of the people with one probably don’t realise they do and think they are permanent already

Guys who were “made up” 5 years ago will likely be in this variation contract but as far as they have been aware they are already full time and it couldn’t be taken off them again with notice

This seems like a case of getting them all officially permanent so when the takeover happens they can’t be taken away

But the reality is that most of the part timers who think they are getting more hours on their contract won’t be and it’s more that those already doing the hours, already think of themselves as full timers will have their contract cut altered so it can’t be removed at Royal Mails whim in future

Good news for them

Not so much will be changing for the overwhelming majority of “real part timers” though

[Lfc1983]

They do exist

The problem is the majority of the people with one probably don’t realise they do and think they are permanent already

Guys who were “made up” 5 years ago will likely be in this variation contract but as far as they have been aware they are already full time and it couldn’t be taken off them again with notice

This seems like a case of getting them all officially permanent so when the takeover happens they can’t be taken away

But the reality is that most of the part timers who think they are getting more hours on their contract won’t be and it’s more that those already doing the hours, already think of themselves as full timers will have their contract cut altered so it can’t be removed at Royal Mails whim in future

Good news for them

Not so much will be changing for the overwhelming majority of “real part timers” though

I feel like the union are wording it in a way to make it sound like more of a win than it actually is.

[Valentina@1]

CWU dressing this up as a big win

Sad times 🥲

[claretandblue]

Like I originally said, the unions line on this is disengenious.

[Valentina@1]

something ain’t sitting right here

[norris9]

They do exist

The problem is the majority of the people with one probably don’t realise they do and think they are permanent already

Guys who were “made up” 5 years ago will likely be in this variation contract but as far as they have been aware they are already full time and it couldn’t be taken off them again with notice

This seems like a case of getting them all officially permanent so when the takeover happens they can’t be taken away

If this is the case then Martin failing to explain this has caused a few days of mayhem for nothing.

If it's actually where PT posties have been offered full time roles and accepted the offer and Royal Mail have just switched the contract to a variation contract and not a fully established FT contract.... then there's nothing for us to moan about.


What I would say is... when Royal Mail are failing at retaining staff + we are struggling to complete duties in time, why haven't practically all part timers been made FT by now anyway. Royal Mail is understaffed and failing deliveries left right and centre.

[Martin Walsh]

Dear Colleague,

Part Time Uplift in Hours

All Branches will recall that Royal Mail had introduced a blanket policy across Royal Mail which stopped part-timers from increasing their contracted hours on their current legacy terms and conditions.

Instead, part-timers were told that they had to accept moving to the new entrants’ terms and conditions if they wanted to accept an uplift in their contracted hours. This was fundamentally wrong and the CWU were determined to change this policy.

In December as part of agreeing the USO pilot, it was agreed that any part-timer offered an increase in contracted hours from part-time to full-time hours will have the opportunity to accept the role on a permanent basis on the legacy terms and conditions.

Royal Mail also stated that there were up to 11,000 part-timers on a temporary variation of contract who it was agreed should be offered a permanent contract.

This included:

8529 part-time staff who will be offered a full-time permanent role on legacy terms and conditions.

1701 part-timers who will be offered an increase in their contracted hours on legacy terms and conditions.

343 individuals who are contracted to 35 hours but are regularly working 37 hours or more will be offered a 37 hour contract.

Some individuals have been on a variation of contract for a considerable period of time. The vast majority of the part-timers should have been given the variation of contract based on seniority.

The attached table lists the 3 categories and numbers based on each ROD area and in national distribution and processing outside of a Mail Centre.

Within a ROD area this will include processing, collections, area distribution and delivery staff.

The sheer scale of what we have agreed should not be underestimated.

The figure of 8552 part-timers who will get the opportunity to become full time is a bigger number than the numbers working in the whole of a ROD area of authority.

In terms of percentages, the figures below are based on the total number of employees working within the ROD area and the number of part-timers who will now get the opportunity to move to full -time.

South West 15%
Scotland 13.8%
Yorkshire 13%
South East 10.5%
Northern Ireland North East 10%
South Central 9.7%
Wales 8.9%
South Midlands 8.6%
London 7.7%
Midlands 7.2%
Anglia 7.2%
North West 5.2%

There is a further group of part-timers we are reviewing and that is the group of part-timers who were capped at 35 hours full-time in 2018 under the Four Pillars agreement until 1st December 2022. We are reviewing the data with the aim to offer the ability to move to 37 hours full-time.

We are working with Royal Mail to ensure all part-timers on a variation have the ability to get an updated contract before 31st January 2025 backdated to 5th January 2025.

Our agreement that any new part-timer who increases their contracted hours will remain on the legacy terms and conditions should now enable reps and branches to re-engage in the review of part-timers’ increase in contracts in line with the Agenda for Growth agreement.

There will also be an opportunity under the USO reform to increase part-time to full-time opportunities as the modelling is showing that the percentage of part-time to full-time jobs increase by between 15% to 20% under the optimised delivery model.

We will provide a further update in due course and there will be a live You Tube session at 17:00 on Thursday 16th January regarding the part-timers uplift and USO pilot.

[TopperGas]

"8529 part-time staff who will be offered a full-time permanent role on legacy terms and conditions.

1701 part-timers who will be offered an increase in their contracted hours on legacy terms and conditions."

What's the difference between "part-time staff" & "part-timers" assuming they are all part of the 11,000 part timers presently working under a "variation"?

I find it surprising there are apparently so many staff working under a "variation" but few of them (if any?) seem to be members of this forum or other RM social media groups.

[cheekymonkey91]

Norris this is true.

In the vast majority of cases and we have the information the variation was offered in seniority order.

The question is if the most senior person rejected it 3 years ago and the individual who accepted it should now at the time they could be made full time give it to the more senior person who rejected the offer 3 years ago ! Is that really fair ?

I believe in seniority but it has never been as clear cut as some make it out to be :

Before age discrimination VRs were given to those age 55 to 65 regardless of whether they were more senior than someone below the age of 55.

Prior to the Way Forward Mail Centres had a different seniority list for Drivers and processing, PHGs based on when you either became a driver or a PHG not when you joined Royal Mail.

Before the Way Forward If you transferred to another office you went to the bottom of the seniority list.

Since the Way Forward unless your duty has changed significantly you do not have to surrender it within a resign.

There will still be part timers made up based on seniority but if someone used their seniority previously to get a variation and has work those hours for months and years it goes against all fairness to say we now giving it to a more senior person who did not want it before.

I disagree we have 8552 part timers who have the opportunity to become full time which is the single biggest ever uplift of part timers and the USO will mean even more opportunities for part timers to increase their hours.

In our office we have 1 person eligible in quite a large office because no one has had a variation to their contract. The rest have relied on overtime here and there if there is no overtime ban in place.

How is this fair that people that have been waiting years don't get made up because we never had the chance to have a temporary role.

It's just going to cause an even bigger divide in the work force and lead to more people leaving the union.

Yep, we have only one in our large office too. There were others on the 'list' but our rep and manager said they were made up years ago, therefore the list is outdated.

Me and one other left the company earlier in the year, after serving 25+years each, we both came back after a few weeks, kept our seniority, but we're put on 35 new contracts (so lost allowances, less hourly rate and no paid meal relief). I have a duty , with day off overtime, so always with over 35 hours. No one seems to know if I qualify

[Lfc1983]

Dear Colleague,

Part Time Uplift in Hours

All Branches will recall that Royal Mail had introduced a blanket policy across Royal Mail which stopped part-timers from increasing their contracted hours on their current legacy terms and conditions.

Instead, part-timers were told that they had to accept moving to the new entrants’ terms and conditions if they wanted to accept an uplift in their contracted hours. This was fundamentally wrong and the CWU were determined to change this policy.

In December as part of agreeing the USO pilot, it was agreed that any part-timer offered an increase in contracted hours from part-time to full-time hours will have the opportunity to accept the role on a permanent basis on the legacy terms and conditions.

Royal Mail also stated that there were up to 11,000 part-timers on a temporary variation of contract who it was agreed should be offered a permanent contract.

This included:

8529 part-time staff who will be offered a full-time permanent role on legacy terms and conditions.

1701 part-timers who will be offered an increase in their contracted hours on legacy terms and conditions.

343 individuals who are contracted to 35 hours but are regularly working 37 hours or more will be offered a 37 hour contract.

Some individuals have been on a variation of contract for a considerable period of time. The vast majority of the part-timers should have been given the variation of contract based on seniority.

The attached table lists the 3 categories and numbers based on each ROD area and in national distribution and processing outside of a Mail Centre.

Within a ROD area this will include processing, collections, area distribution and delivery staff.

The sheer scale of what we have agreed should not be underestimated.

The figure of 8552 part-timers who will get the opportunity to become full time is a bigger number than the numbers working in the whole of a ROD area of authority.

In terms of percentages, the figures below are based on the total number of employees working within the ROD area and the number of part-timers who will now get the opportunity to move to full -time.

South West 15%
Scotland 13.8%
Yorkshire 13%
South East 10.5%
Northern Ireland North East 10%
South Central 9.7%
Wales 8.9%
South Midlands 8.6%
London 7.7%
Midlands 7.2%
Anglia 7.2%
North West 5.2%

There is a further group of part-timers we are reviewing and that is the group of part-timers who were capped at 35 hours full-time in 2018 under the Four Pillars agreement until 1st December 2022. We are reviewing the data with the aim to offer the ability to move to 37 hours full-time.

We are working with Royal Mail to ensure all part-timers on a variation have the ability to get an updated contract before 31st January 2025 backdated to 5th January 2025.

Our agreement that any new part-timer who increases their contracted hours will remain on the legacy terms and conditions should now enable reps and branches to re-engage in the review of part-timers’ increase in contracts in line with the Agenda for Growth agreement.

There will also be an opportunity under the USO reform to increase part-time to full-time opportunities as the modelling is showing that the percentage of part-time to full-time jobs increase by between 15% to 20% under the optimised delivery model.

We will provide a further update in due course and there will be a live You Tube session at 17:00 on Thursday 16th January regarding the part-timers uplift and USO pilot.

I know of someone who has a temporary variation in his contract to work every Sunday who is part time, but because he does 6 days a week now with the Sunday included in his contract he qualifies to be made up to full time.

So because people more senior to him didn't agree to that they miss out on a full time contract but he will now be full time.

How do we go about getting one of these temporary variation contracts when no one seems to be offered one? We just get offered overtime until they decide to ban overtime for a few weeks.

[RuralVan]

Can't be arsed even reading this. All I know is that there is currently a national ban on recruitment until any takeover.

Go figure.

[nuisance]

So why the least opportunities for this in the NW then? Have we officially got the tightest managers now, lol?