Off sick and being harassed by management

[postiewhite]

I went off sick last Friday, was told by the doctor I had chest infection, Tonsillitis and high temperature. Today (Tuesday) is my day off and the manager has phoned me and I told him that I was hoping to try and get back in at the end of the week and just needed a few more days. He told me I had to go in tomorrow for a meeting with the DOM, I told him that if he wanted to talk to me he could ring me. He took NO for an answer and told me I had to go in, I still said I wasn't going to do that (this went on 3 times and repeatedly told him I'm too poorly to go out to work for a meeting).
Anyway I called back and told him I'd force myself in for 10 am, my manager then passed the call onto the DOM who wants me in to do indoor work tomorrow (prep d2ds etc). I'm not an argumentative person and I've reluctantly agreed although I really don't feel well enough. I just think it's disgusting how this was handled by my manager in the first place. I felt absolutely cornered.
Do I just leave things there?

[Londonsburning]

Tell him to get f****d

[Jefferson Starfish]

You're legally able to self cert for 7 calendar days.

You don't have to provide medical evidence of your illness in that time, but your employer can contact you.

https://www.acas.org.uk/sick-leave

[toonshola]

Tell him to politely jog on. What is wrong with these managers who cant seem to understand that human beings get sick from time to time. They seem to think we are some kind of invincible androids that can deliver at a constant speed of 6mph every day of the year without breaking down. Get some rest and hopefully you feel better soon.

[thefox]

Tell him when you woke up you felt a lot worse and can barely get out of bed so are not able to come in to work and do indoor work,if you come in and do indoor they will then begin harassing you to take out part delivery.

[postslippete]

There is nothing wrong with a manager contacting an employee while they are off sick to check on their employee and ask if they need any support but constantly pressuring you to return to work while you are still ill could be seen as harassment which might aggravate your illness with additional stress involved. You could submit a grievance via the People App about this afterwards, but the best thing to do is focus on your recovery.

[postiewhite]

Can I be honest in the welcome back meeting when they ask me the usual questions such as " Are you fully recovered"and " did the manager give you support"? Because I have a few honest things in reply?!!

[SMS1969]

Be as honest as you want but make sure you have a rep with you as a witness and can oversee proceedings.

[postiewhite]

Be as honest as you want but make sure you have a rep with you as a witness and can oversee proceedings.

Thank you

[Gary55]

Not being funny mate but grow some balls. You're not well if they persist tell him about the gastric flu you've also developed maybe because of stress. You would then have to stay off until you are clear of symptoms for at least 48 hours. They're acting like arseholes give some back. Happy Xmas

[Basildon Bond]

Downloading a dictaphone app app to a smartphone and running it in the meeting - telling them it is running - would be the best.

Don't lose your cool. Let them do ALL the talking.

[TheTrolleyMan]

Ask him to write any concerns he may have down or to email you ! They don’t like paper trails

[smok3y666]

I've was being harassed a few years back by a manager at my DO, think I was off with gout and had handed a sick note in, think his phone calls lasted a couple days before I blocked the number on my phone. Never happened since. As far as I'm concerned I'm off sick, if no doctors note is handed in I'll be back in 5 working days or when ever the doctors note runs out.

[thefox]

Downloading a dictaphone app app to a smartphone and running it in the meeting - telling them it is running - would be the best.

Don't lose your cool. Let them do ALL the talking.

Are you allowed to do that?or is it you are not allowed to film within royal mail offices.

[Basildon Bond]

Downloading a dictaphone app app to a smartphone and running it in the meeting - telling them it is running - would be the best.

Don't lose your cool. Let them do ALL the talking.

Are you allowed to do that?or is it you are not allowed to film within royal mail offices.

The answer can zig zag back and forth. Some employers expressly say you cannot record a meeting - why would they want a damning tape to exist right?

Various blogs and websites suggest you and the employer both take written notes as a better method. Even better get someone to take notes/ minute all meetings who is neutral on your behalf (someone you trust to not miss something vital too). Those notes should be shared after each meeting. If either side dispute what the other has summarised then both copies of the minutes should be kept on record. Note taking is an art and just because "Joe" or "Janet" is a solid postie and a good friend, I'm not sure I would trust them to write down everything that was said and whether someone was standing over someone, or pointing their finger, or talking in a raised voice, or note that the manager kept saying they have a meeting in "10 minutes so we have to finish this here" - all contextually important to show an employment tribunal that a dismissal was rushed etc.

Looking through case history (a quick scan of the internet)... there is Phoenix House Ltd v Stockman [2020]. I'll spare you the 120 pages available. Ms Tatiana Stockman did record a meeting and did so covertly.

Link: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... _18_OO.pdf

However, it didn't affect the outcome because of Tatiana's reasoning for WHY she recorded the meeting. Basically she didn't hit "play and record" march into the meeting and try to "score points" or entrap the company (Phoenix House Ltd) that dismissed her. She used it so she had a transcript of the meeting. And during the meeting any and all questions were just normal questions - no trying to make the manager/company look bad on tape so it can be shared later. Summary: your intentions for why you recorded the meeting matter a lot.

In fact, glancing through those 120 pages on the ruling, Phoenix House Ltd tried to argue it was against their policy to record meetings so (summary): "that alone would get her fired". Quote:

54. As we have seen, the Claimant secretly recorded her discussions with Ms Logan on the
afternoon of 23 May 2013. The Respondent was unaware of this recording at the time of
dismissal. At the remedy hearing the Respondent argued that had it known about the recording
it would have dismissed the Claimant for gross misconduct and that it was not just and equitable
to make any award.

However, if we look up Devis & Sons Ltd v Atkins [1977] it clearly says:

An employee’s dismissal can only be justified on facts and reasons known to the employer and in his or her mind at the time of dismissal

So you CANNOT throw up "now we know more, we would have totally sacked them on just THAT fact". The dismissal has to be based on what is known at the time.

Link: https://app.croneri.co.uk/law-and-guida ... rlr-314-hl

Personally I'd prefer to have clear notes and/or recordings of every meeting if I was being dismissed/sacked/fired. I would make sure I did not goad a manager into saying something. I would just want an accurate record as "it was a stressful situation and I couldn't find a person to take notes that I trusted 100%".

I'm sure the debate on what is or isn't allowed can run and run. I do NOT claim to be an internet lawyer. I have found case history (with web links) on the internet and offered it here as to how things have played out in the past.

And finally, as we know working across the UK there seems to be "good" offices and "toxic" offices. There are probably posties who deserve to be dismissed and those that are dismissed because the manager doesn't like them. On this site we all come together and often struggle to understand how an office can be so different. I've worked in several and can see that to be true. We could even get into whistleblowing laws in the UK to expose wrongdoings and open that can of worms. I think RM could use a bit of whistleblowing to keep it honest but that's just me.

I fear the average postie is not sufficiently armed against the complex legal processes and what they should do or not, or say or not if they are told they are being dismissed. If they are an honest person a precise recording of a meeting, just to have an accurate record isn't a bad idea.