New contract overtime

[tramssirhc]

30 hours (old contracts) 30 min break (split 10/20) 0820-1440

This looks incorrect if the paid break is at the end of the duty. Should be 840 - 1440 but clock out at 1420. So 6 hours including 30 mins of paid breaks.

It's not incorrect, it's an example to help explain what should be happening. How the paid breaks are set up is a matter for negotiation.

[funkflex55]

If the worker is leaving 20 minutes early as they're taking the 20 minutes break at the end of the shift then they should be at work for 5 hours and 40 minutes. The above example has them there for 6 hours. This is for the old contract with paid breaks.

[menditsa]

If you drive for Royal Mail in a less than 3.5t van as a DPR you fall under the Working Time Regulations 1998 (Corrected) which states that if you work between 6 - 9 hours a day you must take a min of 30 mins break. Can be split into two 15 mins breaks.

[eggraidonmojo]

These meal relief times from The Way Forward agreement still hold the field I believe, although they no longer attract payment for new starters (at the moment at least).

Legally you have to take at least 20 minutes in your day - not at the beginning or end (regardless if paid or not). If you are on a 6 hour day with a 30 minute break, you could work 08:40 - 15:00, taking your twenty minutes before leaving for delivery, and then taking ten minutes at the end of your day (so with a notional finish time of 15:10).

[menditsa]

Those times may be for non drivers but as I pointed out for Royal Mail DPR drivers they are covered by GB Domestic Driving laws and Working Time Regulations 1998 laws. (Corrected)

I cannot take a 20min and 10min as the WTR clearly states a min 15min break so would have to be 15min + 15min which is what I do when working a 6 hour duty.

No union agreement is above the law and Royal Mail drivers are not exempt.

[eggraidonmojo]

Those times may be for non drivers but as I pointed out for Royal Mail DPR drivers they are covered by GB Domestic Driving laws and Working Time Regulations 1998 laws. (Corrected)

I cannot take a 20min and 10min as the WTR clearly states a min 15min break so would have to be 15min + 15min which is what I do when working a 6 hour duty.

No union agreement is above the law and Royal Mail drivers are not exempt.

Okay. I was just trying to provide some information on breaks in Royal Mail. You're right that drivers have their own set of regulations (and their own union agreement with RM).

Are DPR drivers classed as "drivers" for the purposes of GB Domestic Driving laws though? Even if you did 6 hours on the road, I'm not sure it would be classed as driving, because not continuous: i.e. you're continuously stopping to make deliveries. Could be wrong though.

According to this page though, if you're driving for 6 hours you're only entitled to 15 minutes. 30 minutes is for anything between 6 and 9: https://www.tachomagic.com/tachomagics- ... 20required.

[Clappedoutpostie]

Take your 20 minute break and don’t worry about if whoever you are working with takes theirs, thats their problem. As things stand you are working 20 minutes a day for nothing. At the new contract pay rate those 20 minutes free are literally dropping you down to near minimum wage levels.

[sfxdby]

Your manager is just trying it on.
He knows that you are not taking your unpaid break.
But, if you are going over by 1'20" then you need to book that time.
If he says you are not paid for a 20 minute break say that you haven't had it yet, but will take that now and finish work in 20 minutes time, and you have gone over by 1'20" and that is what you need to be paid. You cannot work through an unpaid break.

[menditsa]

Okay. I was just trying to provide some information on breaks in Royal Mail. You're right that drivers have their own set of regulations (and their own union agreement with RM).

Are DPR drivers classed as "drivers" for the purposes of GB Domestic Driving laws though? Even if you did 6 hours on the road, I'm not sure it would be classed as driving, because not continuous: i.e. you're continuously stopping to make deliveries. Could be wrong though.

According to this page though, if you're driving for 6 hours you're only entitled to 15 minutes. 30 minutes is for anything between 6 and 9: https://www.tachomagic.com/tachomagics- ... 20required.

Multi drop deliveries are a bit of a grey area regarding calculating time when not having a digital tacho to record everything but over the years VOSA and FORS who I dealt with would look at 40 mins driving 20 mins delivering as a rough calculation per hour for a single manned Employed driver multi dropping like DPR drivers, Yodal, DPD in daylight hours, in darkness roughly 48 mins driving 12 mins delivering per hour.

You only have to drive 4 hours on anyone day in a working week to be under GB driving regulations.

It's not 6 hours driving time, it's exactly 6 hours duty time = 15 min
Go one minute over 6h 01min and you fall into the 30 min break requirement

That's the reason I take two 15mins breaks as it covers me up to 9 hours duty time for the times when I will overun 6 hours by even that 1 min.

And yes I have been pulled by a line manager asking why was I stationary for 15 mins

[Checkerfinch]

Okay. I was just trying to provide some information on breaks in Royal Mail. You're right that drivers have their own set of regulations (and their own union agreement with RM).

Are DPR drivers classed as "drivers" for the purposes of GB Domestic Driving laws though? Even if you did 6 hours on the road, I'm not sure it would be classed as driving, because not continuous: i.e. you're continuously stopping to make deliveries. Could be wrong though.

According to this page though, if you're driving for 6 hours you're only entitled to 15 minutes. 30 minutes is for anything between 6 and 9: https://www.tachomagic.com/tachomagics- ... 20required.

Multi drop deliveries are a bit of a grey area regarding calculating time when not having a digital tacho to record everything but over the years VOSA and FORS who I dealt with would look at 40 mins driving 20 mins delivering as a rough calculation per hour for a single manned Employed driver multi dropping like DPR drivers, Yodal, DPD in daylight hours, in darkness roughly 48 mins driving 12 mins delivering per hour.

You only have to drive 4 hours on anyone day in a working week to be under GB driving regulations.

It's not 6 hours driving time, it's exactly 6 hours duty time = 15 min
Go one minute over 6h 01min and you fall into the 30 min break requirement

That's the reason I take two 15mins breaks as it covers me up to 9 hours duty time for the times when I will overun 6 hours by even that 1 min.

And yes I have been pulled by a line manager asking why was I stationary for 15 mins

Management are a bunch of clueless crooks, and yet as we all know this has been going on for years. I only learned about these regs after I left. When I was there nobody seemed to understand how our breaks worked at all!

[Smoothbackground]

Okay. I was just trying to provide some information on breaks in Royal Mail. You're right that drivers have their own set of regulations (and their own union agreement with RM).

Are DPR drivers classed as "drivers" for the purposes of GB Domestic Driving laws though? Even if you did 6 hours on the road, I'm not sure it would be classed as driving, because not continuous: i.e. you're continuously stopping to make deliveries. Could be wrong though.

According to this page though, if you're driving for 6 hours you're only entitled to 15 minutes. 30 minutes is for anything between 6 and 9: https://www.tachomagic.com/tachomagics- ... 20required.

Multi drop deliveries are a bit of a grey area regarding calculating time when not having a digital tacho to record everything but over the years VOSA and FORS who I dealt with would look at 40 mins driving 20 mins delivering as a rough calculation per hour for a single manned Employed driver multi dropping like DPR drivers, Yodal, DPD in daylight hours, in darkness roughly 48 mins driving 12 mins delivering per hour.

You only have to drive 4 hours on anyone day in a working week to be under GB driving regulations.

It's not 6 hours driving time, it's exactly 6 hours duty time = 15 min
Go one minute over 6h 01min and you fall into the 30 min break requirement

That's the reason I take two 15mins breaks as it covers me up to 9 hours duty time for the times when I will overun 6 hours by even that 1 min.

And yes I have been pulled by a line manager asking why was I stationary for 15 mins

But yet under the Domestic Rules, duty time is different from driving time. The Rules refer to a “break from driving” being required only after a “continuous period of driving” of 5hr 30mins. As posties, DPR or otherwise, we would never continuously drive for over five hours.

[menditsa]

The 5.30 limit you quote is for Passenger Vehicles under GB domestic rules, this does not apply to Goods vehicles.

[Smoothbackground]

The 5.30 limit you quote is for Passenger Vehicles under GB domestic rules, this does not apply to Goods vehicles.

Those same domestic rules also apply to LCVs under 3.5 tonnes.

[menditsa]

Sorry but you are 100% incorrect.

Under GB Domestic rules there is actually no requirement to take any break for goods vehicles.

Please read and digest to understand your incorrect understanding.


https://www.gov.uk/drivers-hours/gb-domestic-rules

[Smoothbackground]

My apologies, you are quite right. The Rules apply to passenger vehicles and goods vehicles over 3.5 tonnes. I stand corrected