ALL IS NOT LOST

[lovejoy]

For the last few months there has been nothing but doom and gloom about almost every issue we can imagine. I am not saying some of is not justified but going over old ground serves little or no purpose.

I read the post from Bathboy quoting an article that basically said just roll over and die because our pensions are gone. All of a sudden Royal Mail are some sort of superhuman force that cannot be stopped.

People say they've made their decision and thats the end of it. So i guess its time to pack our bags and walk away then? Not a chance from me because if anyone feels that we can't beat Leighton and Crozier then they have very short memories.

This is the same Allan Leighton that went underground during the 2007 dispute because he couldn't handle real oppositon. This is the same Adam Crozier who told us in February 2007 that he would safeguard the Final Salary Scheme! We are dealing with bullies and the only way to challenge a bully is to stand up to them.

We now all have a chance to have a say via the consultative ballot and we need a massive YES vote. I know some people say this is pointless but i disagree. The 2006 consultative ballot reveresed the imposition of a pay agreement.

Some members/ reps say we should be balloting for strike action - In my opinion this would be too soon. For every one of us up for the right at this exact moment there are probably 5 who are battle weary from last year. The consultative ballot enables the union to build towards a full strike ballot and show any waverers that IA is a last resort.

There are some that said we should have stayed out when we were striking last year. I disagree for a couple of reasons. One is honesty. For all the bravado there were a lot of units and even branches at breaking point after the 48hr strikes (easy to deny this now). More importantly though it was not right that Royal Mail members took action to defend the pensions of POL, Parcelforce, Sales and even Managers!!! It is right that now the whole of RM Group will get a say!

Today the UNITE CMA have announed that 85% of their members voted against Royal Mails proposals. If even the same snakes that crossed our picket lines can say no to the changes the anything less than a 95% return for us would be poor. By the way i still expect the CMA members to crumble at the mere mention of IA in the future.

Allan Leighton tells us there will be no change, dodgy websites tell us there will be no changes and all of a sudden all is lost. Personally i don't think so and at the end of the day Royal Mails pension plans will cost me a fortune. I'd rather lose that money stood on the picket line fighting for my future than hand over that money defeated and deflated by two bullies.

Come on guys / girls. This issue is too big to fall out over. Lets get back to where we were in summer 2007. UNITE TO FIGHT.

[Broxi51]

At the end of the day the majority are going to vote against the RM pension option. This means we now move on to phase 2. Unite want crozier to sit down & talk about it but what is the CWU's wish?
Yes we are battle weary but we are not so weary that we will roll over and die. We will fight if that is what we must do to protect our pensions.
We need to know what options the CWU have. Work to rule is to me the best option because it will show RM cannot survive without OT. This will fight RM on 2 fronts, the phase 2 agreements on outdoor work and absorption of duties plus the pension fiasco. A strike may win in the end but we have to show RM that by doing the job properly RM need more staff to do the work we do now. It is up to us the union to decide the new way forward
Let's decide and move onwards as a UNION!!!!!

[lovejoy]

At the end of the day the majority are going to vote against the RM pension option. This means we now move on to phase 2. Unite want crozier to sit down & talk about it but what is the CWU's wish?
Yes we are battle weary but we are not so weary that we will roll over and die. We will fight if that is what we must do to protect our pensions.
We need to know what options the CWU have. Work to rule is to me the best option because it will show RM cannot survive without OT. This will fight RM on 2 fronts, the phase 2 agreements on outdoor work and absorption of duties plus the pension fiasco. A strike may win in the end but we have to show RM that by doing the job properly RM need more staff to do the work we do now. It is up to us the union to decide the new way forward
Let's decide and move onwards as a UNION!!!!!

Agreed mate but is important that the postal side of union is more than just deliveries. Any future action must suit all businesses.

The immediate aim of the CWU is the same as UNITE.....more negitiations

[peterloo]

spot on lovejoy. its a yes vote

[norbert]

2 X 48hr strikes may have been a bridge too far , though rolling strikes was a good tactic , going down the all out road plays into the RM Victorian Millowner mentality and starve them back to work .No doubt I'll get slated for saying this but there's quite a few trade unionists from other unions that would agree with me .

Leighton is a Board Room Bully , he soon disappeared when he finally realized he wasn't running Asda , his Senior Managers were split , Crozier was taking a battering from the Tory Papers and he had to get "Uncle Tom " to get him out of a corner with the vague , obscure Spanish Practices that his predecessors originated in the first place .

Delivery was carrying the fight forward for the whole of RM group and there was complaints about the CWU making the dispute ( god forbid ) a political one .85% proves the worm is slowly turning , it's better than nowt .

It's a funny "coincidence" that these dodgy websites were running articles about that the "union meeting in a phone box " site had served its purpose during the dispute and should be disbanded , these articles were supposedly from staff that "just happened" to use the usual stock phrases and union bashing buzzwords , now these dodgy sites would have you believe strikes are a certainty and their advertisers will clean up .

[doveston]

battle weary my arse,bring it on.our jobs are bugered for 400 quid,no chance i'm letting my vote/pension go tits up

[lovejoy]

battle weary my arse,bring it on.our jobs are bugered for 400 quid,no chance i'm letting my vote/pension go tits up

I never said you were battle weary mate but there are plenty out there who are!!! Its about carrying the memberhip forward as one not in sections or pockets of militancy

[brothermagrew]

Guaranteed tactics of Royal Mail is that they will make a more better renewed offer to the Managers UNITE membership in order to once again DIVIDE and CONQUER. We may be battle weary (CWU lads and lasses) but IMHO they Royal Mail have gone to far. As individuals we can't afford to loose such vast amounts of money to our pensions.

STAND AND FIGHT

[bogstandard]

My pension illustration showed me to be £1500 a year worse off immediately, and that i would need to work for 3 more years for £17 a YEAR more.
A colleague with just under 5 years to go told me they will need to work approx 18 months just to receive a similar pension.
All this is based on our current earnings these numbers can only get worse.
the CWU need to put out numbers.
I.E.
start work on at 20 on 10k per year
money goes up 500 quid evey year for 40 years retire at 60 on 30k
40 60ths = 20k pension

proposal=
start at 20 on 10k
money goes up 500 quid for 45 years
retire at 65 on £32,500
average earning = £21,250
45 60ths = £15,937

A difference of £4000 or if you like approx £80 per week for the rest of your retirement
The longer your in the CARE pension the worse off financially you will become

[trythat]

Yes we are battle weary but we are not so weary that we will roll over and die. We will fight if that is what we must do to protect our pensions.
!

Come to my office then, over 50% went in,when we were on strike. They can't see past their nose's, all I hear from them is when are we getting our £400.Their to stupid to realise they may lose more than a month pay for every year they are retired. Just flash a few pound signs in front of them, and they'll do what ever management want.

[lovejoy]

Yes we are battle weary but we are not so weary that we will roll over and die. We will fight if that is what we must do to protect our pensions.
!

Come to my office then, over 50% went in,when we were on strike. They can't see past their nose's, all I hear from them is when are we getting our £400.Their to stupid to realise they may lose more than a month pay for every year they are retired. Just flash a few pound signs in front of them, and they'll do what ever management want.

thats why any campaign must be good enough and well thought out enough to bring the membership together as a whole. A strike ballot now would be wrong but all roads lead that way at some point but the union must be seen to be seeking a negotiated settlement

[sparkx]

Guaranteed tactics of Royal Mail is that they will make a more better renewed offer to the Managers UNITE membership in order to once again DIVIDE and CONQUER. We may be battle weary (CWU lads and lasses) but IMHO they Royal Mail have gone to far. As individuals we can't afford to loose such vast amounts of money to our pensions.

STAND AND FIGHT

They've already done that, CMA bonuses will count towards pensionable pay out of last years pay award, I don't remember the CWU getting that. But given the disparity between the two Bonus schemes realistically I don't think it would make much of a difference to a CWU members final pension.

I think RM have shot themselves in the foot, they claim that the CMA and CWU agreed to support the changes as part of last years pay negotiations, but at they time they hadn't told us what the changes were going to be so how could we have signed up to it.

Lets hope the CWU and CMA hierachy work together on this and not against each other

[dvbuk55]

Yes we are battle weary but we are not so weary that we will roll over and die. We will fight if that is what we must do to protect our pensions.
!

Come to my office then, over 50% went in,when we were on strike. They can't see past their nose's, all I hear from them is when are we getting our £400.Their to stupid to realise they may lose more than a month pay for every year they are retired. Just flash a few pound signs in front of them, and they'll do what ever management want.

thats why any campaign must be good enough and well thought out enough to bring the membership together as a whole. A strike ballot now would be wrong but all roads lead that way at some point but the union must be seen to be seeking a negotiated settlement

I'm not battle weary BUT Royal Mail DIDN'T negotiate in the first place and the reason is they had no need to. It wasn't negotiation it was consultation, we have been consulted and they have ignored it and in just 12 days time the changes take place. Someone tell me why we are locking the stable door NOW when the horse bolted nearly 12 months ago and did nothing.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

I'm not battle weary BUT Royal Mail DIDN'T negotiate in the first place and the reason is they had no need to. It wasn't negotiation it was consultation, we have been consulted and they have ignored it and in just 12 days time the changes take place. Someone tell me why we are locking the stable door NOW when the horse bolted nearly 12 months ago and did nothing.

I think it was a case of RM playing the CWU for a chump. While the horse bolted in the background, the union was trying to decide if it was a Unicorn or a thoroughbred, in fact it turned out to be a donkey.

[dvbuk55]

I'm not battle weary BUT Royal Mail DIDN'T negotiate in the first place and the reason is they had no need to. It wasn't negotiation it was consultation, we have been consulted and they have ignored it and in just 12 days time the changes take place. Someone tell me why we are locking the stable door NOW when the horse bolted nearly 12 months ago and did nothing.

I think it was a case of RM playing the CWU for a chump. While the horse bolted in the background, the union was trying to decide if it was a Unicorn or a thoroughbred, in fact it turned out to be a donkey.

He aw he aw he always calls em donkeys.