Being threatened with gross misconduct for bringing back mail.

[discardatwill]

Hi, I was just wanting to hear what the sketch is with this.

The walks we have are unrealistic and on a busy day or god forbid busy days after there is already leftover from previous days are impossible to clear within the hours. I try to say and estimate what is reasonable to get done in the given time (to the best of my ability) and get told that more needs to go out regardless.

Depending on who is on the shift with the somewhat new starts times even less gets done than expected before being forced to take out more mail than was deemed reasonable and it has to get brought back to the office when time runs out.

The management has taken to making threats about this being gross misconduct and a sackable offence and it is becoming incredibly stressful.
If we say we're only going to manage X amount, we get complained at and told it is not acceptable and to take out X amount + Y. Then when it inevitably fails because it was never achievable threats of gross misconduct start getting thrown out.

I doubt I will be with this company for much longer with the way the management is as it is deeply stressing me out, just wanted to rant a bit.

[jessicarabbit]

Look up the Overrunning Delivery Procedure on here. It's still the best tool we have. As long as you are quite clear that you disagree with what you are being asked to deliver in the time. Take as much as they ask you out with you. Use the tools, take your breaks work at reasonable pace without stopping excessively then ring at agreed time and inform what you are bringing back. We are literally still untouchable with this.

It's gets muddy if they start changing the goalposts during the day and say stuff like if you are cutting off you need to deliver all the tracked or other BS like this. Explain calmly that we don't prioritise mail and if they wanted that they should have put it in writing for you before you left the office.

[dazzler123]

They cant make you do anything over your time. Do your job correctly, dont give them a reason to find you skiving, and you are fine. Are you being singled out or is this a blanket threat to workers?

We are a pairing, both fit, drivers and responsible workers. All we can do know is flip the frames each day, delivering one frame of mail (with 2 days worth of letters) whilst doing all the packets/tracked for both frames

[discardatwill]

Look up the Overrunning Delivery Procedure on here. It's still the best tool we have. As long as you are quite clear that you disagree with what you are being asked to deliver in the time. Take as much as they ask you out with you. Use the tools, take your breaks work at reasonable pace without stopping excessively then ring at agreed time and inform what you are bringing back. We are literally still untouchable with this.

It's gets muddy if they start changing the goalposts during the day and say stuff like if you are cutting off you need to deliver all the tracked or other BS like this. Explain calmly that we don't prioritise mail and if they wanted that they should have put it in writing for you before you left the office.

Will have a look, but this issue of being pressured into taking more than is possible has been ongoing for a while now and anything brought up by myself or others to the management is being handwaved and ignored.

They cant make you do anything over your time. Do your job correctly, dont give them a reason to find you skiving, and you are fine. Are you being singled out or is this a blanket threat to workers?

We are a pairing, both fit, drivers and responsible workers. All we can do know is flip the frames each day, delivering one frame of mail (with 2 days worth of letters) whilst doing all the packets/tracked for both frames

I definitely don't skive, I don't stop at all or even take breaks and constantly try to get as much done as is reasonably possible short of running the whole day. It's been a blanket threat to office that keeps getting hammered in constantly and honestly I just can't be dealing with it.

[dazzler123]

Look up the Overrunning Delivery Procedure on here. It's still the best tool we have. As long as you are quite clear that you disagree with what you are being asked to deliver in the time. Take as much as they ask you out with you. Use the tools, take your breaks work at reasonable pace without stopping excessively then ring at agreed time and inform what you are bringing back. We are literally still untouchable with this.

It's gets muddy if they start changing the goalposts during the day and say stuff like if you are cutting off you need to deliver all the tracked or other BS like this. Explain calmly that we don't prioritise mail and if they wanted that they should have put it in writing for you before you left the office.

Will have a look, but this issue of being pressured into taking more than is possible has been ongoing for a while now and anything brought up by myself or others to the management is being handwaved and ignored.

They cant make you do anything over your time. Do your job correctly, dont give them a reason to find you skiving, and you are fine. Are you being singled out or is this a blanket threat to workers?

We are a pairing, both fit, drivers and responsible workers. All we can do know is flip the frames each day, delivering one frame of mail (with 2 days worth of letters) whilst doing all the packets/tracked for both frames

I definitely don't skive, I don't stop at all or even take breaks and constantly try to get as much done as is reasonably possible short of running the whole day. It's been a blanket threat to office that keeps getting hammered in constantly and honestly I just can't be dealing with it.

They havnt got a leg to stand on then. Tomorrow, take your break before going out, take a step back and relax. This company are not worth your health. I used to ignore breaks, rush around etc. After the recent revision they have wrecked our office, and they know it. You cant take it serious anymore. I have a phrase of resignation to myself now 'no matter what you do it wont be enough for them'.

You need unity in numbers though as they will go for the weak ones who cant say no

[discardatwill]

They havnt got a leg to stand on then. Tomorrow, take your break before going out, take a step back and relax. This company are not worth your health. I used to ignore breaks, rush around etc. After the recent revision they have wrecked our office, and they know it. You cant take it serious anymore. I have a phrase of resignation to myself now 'no matter what you do it wont be enough for them'.

You need unity in numbers though as they will go for the weak ones who cant say no

Thanks for the advice, I figured it didn't seem right. I try to distance myself from it to preserve my mental health but when the management doesn't care and doesn't want to and starts blasting from the hip with serious threats from issues you and others have highlighted it still gets to you.

It's soul sucking.

But yes to clarify they are insisting that we cannot take mail or packets back to the delivery office, even after hours are finished and that if we do it is gross misconduct and sackable.

[dazzler123]

They havnt got a leg to stand on then. Tomorrow, take your break before going out, take a step back and relax. This company are not worth your health. I used to ignore breaks, rush around etc. After the recent revision they have wrecked our office, and they know it. You cant take it serious anymore. I have a phrase of resignation to myself now 'no matter what you do it wont be enough for them'.

You need unity in numbers though as they will go for the weak ones who cant say no

Thanks for the advice, I figured it didn't seem right. I try to distance myself from it to preserve my mental health but when the management doesn't care and doesn't want to and starts blasting from the hip with serious threats from issues you and others have highlighted it still gets to you.

It's soul sucking.

But yes to clarify they are insisting that we cannot take mail or packets back to the delivery office, even after hours are finished and that if we do it is gross misconduct and sackable.

Ask them what do they want you to deliver, ie. tracked. Try not to be arsey saying i thought we didnt prioritise parcels etc, thats just inciting them. Offer to clear the tracked and take what mail time permits. Thats how we roll at our place now, but obviously offices will be different.
They cant question you on taking your break etc, that will make them look ridiculous

[Gary55]

Hi, I was just wanting to hear what the sketch is with this.

The walks we have are unrealistic and on a busy day or god forbid busy days after there is already leftover from previous days are impossible to clear within the hours. I try to say and estimate what is reasonable to get done in the given time (to the best of my ability) and get told that more needs to go out regardless.

Depending on who is on the shift with the somewhat new starts times even less gets done than expected before being forced to take out more mail than was deemed reasonable and it has to get brought back to the office when time runs out.

The management has taken to making threats about this being gross misconduct and a sackable offence and it is becoming incredibly stressful.
If we say we're only going to manage X amount, we get complained at and told it is not acceptable and to take out X amount + Y. Then when it inevitably fails because it was never achievable threats of gross misconduct start getting thrown out.

I doubt I will be with this company for much longer with the way the management is as it is deeply stressing me out, just wanted to rant a bit.

Your management are bullies and talking s**t. Get the union onboard. If your office rep is also intimidated demand he passes it up the chain. We've had bullies in our office before but current team leave us alone as long as we are doing all we reasonably can and not taking the piss

[TopperGas]

They havnt got a leg to stand on then. Tomorrow, take your break before going out, take a step back and relax. This company are not worth your health. I used to ignore breaks, rush around etc. After the recent revision they have wrecked our office, and they know it. You cant take it serious anymore. I have a phrase of resignation to myself now 'no matter what you do it wont be enough for them'.

You need unity in numbers though as they will go for the weak ones who cant say no

Thanks for the advice, I figured it didn't seem right. I try to distance myself from it to preserve my mental health but when the management doesn't care and doesn't want to and starts blasting from the hip with serious threats from issues you and others have highlighted it still gets to you.

It's soul sucking.

But yes to clarify they are insisting that we cannot take mail or packets back to the delivery office, even after hours are finished and that if we do it is gross misconduct and sackable.

Assuming you are in the union what does your union rep say about the threats? I can't see how you can be forced to work over your time, but have no idea of your work loads nor what you are expected to clear.

[discardatwill]

Assuming you are in the union what does your union rep say about the threats? I can't see how you can be forced to work over your time, but have no idea of your work loads nor what you are expected to clear.

I had never joined the union (regrettably) because I never expected something like this to happen, I've submitted membership in the last couple of days and I'm just awaiting verification because I was planning on bringing this up to them because it seems like them trying to force unwanted overtime on people with threats and essentially blackmail.

[Jen1]

It’s hilarious how managers think that threats and intimidation are going to make you want to work harder and faster for them

There’s so many people in our office now that won’t work a minute over for one of our managers because of the way he’s treated them (they will for the other one because she looks after us and seems to actually care and appreciate our efforts)

Even so we’re still only human and still the amount they expect us to achieve in the time we have is laughable

But god forbid you should tell them the duty is too big that’s when the belittling and threats start

During the dispute they actually threatened to suspend me for potential wilful delay of mail even though I was happy to work over and complete but wasn’t allowed as there was an overtime ban (you can’t make this s**t up)

I don’t respond well to threats so with the help of my union rep I put in a complaint about bullying and harassment which my colleagues backed me up with and sent him examples of instances where the managers had treated me unfairly

The managers decided it was best not to escalate the complaint and we resolved the matter

[Clappedoutpostie]

Ask for it to be put in writing that it’s gross miscount to bring work back and tell them to stick it in the noticeboard for all to see whilst they’re at it.

[dodgyinlaws]

I was like you when I started, managers target the people who they think they can push around. Learnt how to stand up for myself, treat them how they treat you, I wasn't afraid to raise my voice against these bullying tyrants when the situation arose. If I wasn't prepared to work over I approached the manager and asked them "what do you want me to do with the mail that takes me over my time" then leave it to them to manage and follow what they tell you, the conversation on your part should be over, if they try and start been difficult ask them again but make sure you reply so you mean it. No doubt you will then probably have a target on your back, but like others have said as long as you are working and not idle or chatting away then they have no ammunition. Royal Mail requires you to work at a reasonable pace, not fast or quick no matter what your manager says. If a manager starts making comments about your performance ask them "what are you going to do to fix it", that's there job to fix it not yours but it easier for them to bully and harass those who they think they can because they are either incompetent or too lazy to fix issues.

[Mickeybrowneyes]

I was like you when I started, managers target the people who they think they can push around. Learnt how to stand up for myself, treat them how they treat you, I wasn't afraid to raise my voice against these bullying tyrants when the situation arose. If I wasn't prepared to work over I approached the manager and asked them "what do you want me to do with the mail that takes me over my time" then leave it to them to manage and follow what they tell you, the conversation on your part should be over, if they try and start been difficult ask them again but make sure you reply so you mean it. No doubt you will then probably have a target on your back, but like others have said as long as you are working and not idle or chatting away then they have no ammunition. Royal Mail requires you to work at a reasonable pace, not fast or quick no matter what your manager says. If a manager starts making comments about your performance ask them "what are you going to do to fix it", that's there job to fix it not yours but it easier for them to bully and harass those who they think they can because they are either incompetent or too lazy to fix issues.

This exactly.
Some managers, not all, will focus their attention and bullying tactics on those that they think they can mentally wear down to the point where they are consistently working more hours than they are contracted.
Once they know that you are not phased by their underhand tactics they tend to leave you alone in my experience.
I always invited them out with me on delivery to shadow me and tell where I was going wrong.
They soon put their attention elsewhere.
Some of these rogue managers are opportunists. It is obvious from the tone of your post that it is affecting you and mentally draining you.
I know it's not how a healthy work environment should be and I empathize with you.
This is happening all over the place it seems.
Just follow the procedure, invite them out with you and try not to show them it's bothering you would be my advice.
All of them quickly disappeared in my experience when I invited them to test the walk.
If it gets too much get the rep/union involved and put a grievance in if you have to.
Don't be sacred to say to these vultures that their behaviour is verging on bullying and harassment.
Sometimes it's enough to just let them know you can see what they are up.
None of this has to be done aggressively, just let them know you are not going to be pushed around.
They know it's too long and unachievable, they are just preying on certain individuals.

[discardatwill]

Thanks for all the helpful responses, I will be in touch with the local union rep once my membership is verified and have read through the Overrunning Deliver Procedure (Commit to Work) and will be sure to do as it states as at least I had never even known that this procedure existed and had never been told of or about it.