RMCtv : One-off lump sum payment being paid to each employee in September confirmed as 1,007

[luddite]

Presumably he feels that RM should behave like the mentioned dental practice and give all staff a pay rise...just because it's a nice thing to do.
Sadly a listed company going through convulsions like RM is currently would never do anything as naive as that.

And that's why the company is f****d.
A decent payrise to motivate and retain staff. Most of the firms on the industrial estate I deliver too have looked after their employees and are thriving. My wife's firm 10% last year, 8% this year because they need to retain their staff and move forwards which they are. RM however are spiralling downwards and have no idea how to stop the tail spin. At the moment the policy seems to be to up the bullying but strangely that's doesn't seem to work.

[Dexydog]

Why is it so ridiculous to have a separate vote for pay and change?

I can't believe you're even asking that.
Who's going to vote for change on its own?

I can't believe youve forgotten in the earliest stages the call was for a no strings pay rise?
If RM weren't prepared to offer that, why wasn't a strike called earlier?
Instead, the union caved in way too early to the extent even you can't see why it's so important.
A pay rise matching inflation= we stay where we are.
A pay rise way under inflation plus giving up God knows what in return=we've been shafted.
Why is that so hard to comprehend?
The company is in a financial mess (if they even are which I highly doubt), because of their own doing.
No-one can seriously believe the loss of mail contracts set against the amount of mail that now doesn't get delivered for days on end equals financial distress.
It's corporate lying and cooking of books.
And we bear the brunt, as usual.

[Dexydog]

Presumably he feels that RM should behave like the mentioned dental practice and give all staff a pay rise...just because it's a nice thing to do.
Sadly a listed company going through convulsions like RM is currently would never do anything as naive as that.

And that's why the company is f****d.
A decent payrise to motivate and retain staff. Most of the firms on the industrial estate I deliver too have looked after their employees and are thriving. My wife's firm 10% last year, 8% this year because they need to retain their staff and move forwards which they are. RM however are spiralling downwards and have no idea how to stop the tail spin. At the moment the policy seems to be to up the bullying but strangely that's doesn't seem to work.

Bravo.
Not just my daughters dental practice then. (this was just an example that someone on here thought they were just being nice). God forbid a company should be nice to it's employees
It's like brainwashing that we are led to believe by the union and RM this is the new normal.
It's NOT how it should be.

[luddite]

We stood on a picket line for a no strings attached payrise, when did you change your mind Woody? I wish fat Dave had said earlier so I wouldn't have wasted 18days and holiday entitlement. All my friends, family and customers have had decent pay rises and given nothing away!!

[Dexydog]

[richietns]

"It's like brainwashing that we are led to believe by the union and RM this is the new normal.
It's NOT how it should be."

It is though..amazon makes billions but treats its staff even worse than us,we all wanted a payrise only but Simon got union busters in to hemerage any money and wear down moral it didn't get rid of the union though because we stood together can you imagine if the union weren't there at all we would be working till 8 for a start and god knows what else and possibly no payrise or bonus or paid breaks etc.

[Dexydog]

Right because Amazon are the beacons of fair play.
This is what I'm trying to say- none of this is how employees should be treated by a caring employer.
One that gets the best out of its workforce and treat them accordingly.
None of what is happening in this country at the moment should be considered normal, and worse still, acceptable.

[richietns]

We all know that but try stopping it big business or private corporations have the money and power now backed by a s**t government.

[postslippete]

I'm not sure you understand what confirmation bias is Pete.. the escrow money is nothing to do with profit share.

I have no doubt that Royal Mail introduced the escrow money as a sweetener but I also have no doubt without an agreement they would instead have used that money to offset any industrial action we may have taken.

That's not confirmation bias, it's a dose of reality.

Confirmation bias is looking for things that support your view and in this case it is that a no vote wouldn't have led to any additional payments being made in the future.

We don't know that!

The reality is that the CWU have been outplayed by the Royal Mail. From where the Union started at the beginning of the dispute to where we have eventually ended up so once Royal Mail offered more money as the "sweetener" most posties realised how ineffective the Union are and took the money.

[thefox]

We stood on a picket line for a no strings attached payrise, when did you change your mind Woody? I wish fat Dave had said earlier so I wouldn't have wasted 18days and holiday entitlement. All my friends, family and customers have had decent pay rises and given nothing away!!

Exactly this,i will never go on strike for this union again.

[Woody Guthrie]

Confirmation bias is looking for things that support your view and in this case it is that a no vote wouldn't have led to any additional payments being made in the future.

We don't know that!

No that's not confirmation bias either.
It's what people do in situations where there are unknowns, you look at what you do know and you make a judgement call.

The two possible outcomes were not balanced by the statement that we just don't know!

One outcome, that they would have withheld the payment is based on previous Royal Mail behaviour during the dispute and the financial position of the business under continuing industrial action.

The other potential outcome, that they would have made the payment anyway despite the agreement being rejected is based on what exactly?

It's an evidence based decision, not confirmation bias.

[postslippete]

The two possible outcomes were not balanced by the statement that we just don't know!

One outcome, that they would have withheld the payment is based on previous Royal Mail behaviour during the dispute and the financial position of the business under continuing industrial action.

The other potential outcome, that they would have made the payment anyway despite the agreement being rejected is based on what exactly?

It's an evidence based decision, not confirmation bias.

The first outcome relates to a biased favouring of information that relates to the dire financial outcome of the company which is entirely deliberate and manipulated to suit the company rather than the actual evidence that Royal Mails financial position is actually quite healthy.

The second potential outcome relates to the Royal Mail board also wanting an end to industrial action and needing some sort of agreement. Royal Mail were always going to drive a hard bargain and they started out with compulsory Sunday working, commit to deliver and compulsory redundancies. They came out with a final offer last year. Wasn't quite the final offer was it?


If I were looking for evidence I would take what Royal Mail say with a pinch of salt.

[Binsey]

Can I come from another angle on this issue.

Is it morally right that legacy staff pre 2008 have had their Pension scheme RAIDED?

I know I will get all it’s legally ok to do it.
RM would have done it anyway
The moneys ours / it’s there’s etc etc.
Blah Blah all HS.

It’s morally and ethically wrong.

I remember 1989 and all same BS arguments.

How the Union have pushed this I am utterly bewildered.

We will reap what we have sown.

[aiden01]

maybe it would have been better to vote not knowing there was an extra £900~ in the deal, as that to some was deemed a bribe for votes.

All of the reward section of the deal could also be considered a bribe.
The pay rise.
The back pay.
The £500 lump sum.
And the £900+

You could argue that the change and reward should have been subject to separate votes but that would be ridiculous and no-one would ever vote for change.

The only way was to put everything out there and let people decide for themselves.

Why is it so ridiculous to have a separate vote for pay and change?
My other half received a 6% pay rise in April without giving up anything in return.
My daughter works in a small, family run dental practice- pay rise without even asking this year, and a nice unexpected bonus to go with it.
The union's first approach was to get a no strings pay deal.
Whatever happened to that?
Why should a pay rise be considered so out of the question when the cost of everything(i ncluding stamps) has gone up so much?
It's always us giving up something in return for what most other people in other industries are given without question.
If this company wasn't run by imbeciles pandering to shareholders the whole time (who incidently have no idea how much money is wasted through inefficiencies)., maybe we would all be better, healthier, and not arguing between ourselves the whole time.
The work environment s toxic.
The company ethos is to grind its workforce into the ground.
All the while ripping off customers by delaying a service which has been paid for upfront.
We have the infrastructure and customer base to blow the competition away.
But we continually blow away every advantage we have.
No.1 should be a workforce that is motivated and willing to help make a profit which everyone shares in.
Instead they choose to isolate and turn what most folk here used to care what happens into a workforce that looks at how it is now treated and behaves accordingly.
The company is a complete joke.

Dexy everything you say is correct, unfortunately like any privatised company they haven't finished creaming out all the money they invested in the first place.
Just as soon as they have enough in their pockets they might decide too have a look at the workforce and might wonder where they all fecked off too.
Except for Lou and Aiden i would imagine they would be still be here completing and loving working for RM.

Good to see your over the yes vote scotchy like you have previously stated obviously not. do not understand your comment completing..completing what i work in a mc have a start an finish time an could,nt care less what happens before my start time or after it. I do what asked i'm to do inbetween an go home. now please commit one way or the other or you over the yes vote or not.

[scotchy1962]

maybe it would have been better to vote not knowing there was an extra £900~ in the deal, as that to some was deemed a bribe for votes.

All of the reward section of the deal could also be considered a bribe.
The pay rise.
The back pay.
The £500 lump sum.
And the £900+

You could argue that the change and reward should have been subject to separate votes but that would be ridiculous and no-one would ever vote for change.

The only way was to put everything out there and let people decide for themselves.

Why is it so ridiculous to have a separate vote for pay and change?
My other half received a 6% pay rise in April without giving up anything in return.
My daughter works in a small, family run dental practice- pay rise without even asking this year, and a nice unexpected bonus to go with it.
The union's first approach was to get a no strings pay deal.
Whatever happened to that?
Why should a pay rise be considered so out of the question when the cost of everything(i ncluding stamps) has gone up so much?
It's always us giving up something in return for what most other people in other industries are given without question.
If this company wasn't run by imbeciles pandering to shareholders the whole time (who incidently have no idea how much money is wasted through inefficiencies)., maybe we would all be better, healthier, and not arguing between ourselves the whole time.
The work environment s toxic.
The company ethos is to grind its workforce into the ground.
All the while ripping off customers by delaying a service which has been paid for upfront.
We have the infrastructure and customer base to blow the competition away.
But we continually blow away every advantage we have.
No.1 should be a workforce that is motivated and willing to help make a profit which everyone shares in.
Instead they choose to isolate and turn what most folk here used to care what happens into a workforce that looks at how it is now treated and behaves accordingly.
The company is a complete joke.

Dexy everything you say is correct, unfortunately like any privatised company they haven't finished creaming out all the money they invested in the first place.
Just as soon as they have enough in their pockets they might decide too have a look at the workforce and might wonder where they all fecked off too.
Except for Lou and Aiden i would imagine they would be still be here completing and loving working for RM.

Good to see your over the yes vote scotchy like you have previously stated obviously not. do not understand your comment completing..completing what i work in a mc have a start an finish time an could,nt care less what happens before my start time or after it. I do what asked i'm to do inbetween an go home. now please commit one way or the other or you over the yes vote or not.

Hahahaha Lou i have no idea what you are on about, the only person mentioning the yes/no vote is you. Lifes too short to spend on a pointless debate with you about it.