A Fairly Articulate and Accurate Appraisal of Our Postion ..

[Budfrog]

I disagree with allot of what they normally say however on this occasion they are spot on IMHO:

http://www.hellmail.co.uk/postalnews/te ... 1&zoneid=5

11 March 2008 by Jim Finch - Brighton - "Hellmail Talkback" - © Hellmail.co.uk

The CWU ballot on Royal Mail pensions rolls on. I have more than a hunch that the CWU made a major blunder during the last pay deal talks and over the next few weeks, it will become abundantly clear that that is exactly what has happened.

Royal Mail gave the assurance to CWU leader Bill Hayes that workers opinions would be taken into account and the CWU would be consulted. Hayes interpretaion of that was that nothing would be pushed through without his and Dave Ward's say so and the pair of them went off smiling, thinking everything was fine and they had set the pension apart from the pay deal. The pay deal was ratified with that impression.

The fact is, Royal Mail HAS consulted workers - it invited everyone to put forward their views and it has talked to the CWU. I'll admit its not what the CWU thought would happen, but when this is presented to the Trustees, Royal Mail will in fact have met the meaning of the consultation process in full and it will probably be accepted on that basis. This is precisely what Hayes said in a recent circular to reps. It is peppered with bullet points and makes it plain that the CWU isn't exactly happy abut the pension revision, but if you go through it, CWU HQ don't appear to have any weight to object to this - other than a threat of upping their campaign - whatever that means.

Royal Mail will have consulted with some of the sharpest solicitors around and it is unlikely that the CWU will have matched that level of expertise. Whether it was down to limited finances or poor legal advisors on the CWU's part is unimportant, but RM have never at any point said that they would let the CWU decide on how the pension issue shoud be solved - not in any official statement or even in the wording of the finalised pay deal.

We already have at least one example where last year, the CWU had to cover their tracks when the notice given of one bout of inustrial action did not comply with the law and Royal Mail were not only quick to pick up on it, they filed an injunction. The legal advisors that Royal Mail use are very hot on wording and small print and in my view, the CWU was in way out of its depth last year. We had a long phase of both sides refusing to budge until one particular meeting - after which the CWU suddenly changed its tune. You go figure that one, but chances are, Royal Mail laid out the figures that showed the whole picture in terms that Hayes and Ward could understand and they then realised that the strikes were not going to get them anywhere. The deal was closed fairly quickly after that.

Theres also the problem of lost business every time there is a strike. If workers decide to engage in one-day stoppages or head for picket lines, Royal Mail will lose more contracts through downstream access - not to mention the support of customers.

The CWU will continue to make lots of noise, as indeed it has to, but the most workers can expect is a small sweetener after private meetings between the CWU and RM bosses. Despite the talk of strikes, few workers see any merit in another and even if they did, it won't change the need to restructure a pension scheme in massive debt. Royal Mail's pension scheme isn't the only one struggling and many have collapsed - few if any of those people will see their money again. Like the last deal, Hayes will do his best to find some small nugget to present to CWU members as evidence of victory but thats about all.

The hard-liners are tough enough to march enmasses with Burslem blowing in their hair, but Royal Mail isn't the only operator out there now any more. It may be the biggest final mile service but it is already delivering mail for other companes at less profit - it really doesn't take a genius to see that the trend will continue and at an even faster pace if workers opt to stand outside delivery offices doing nothing.

Things might have been very different if Royal Mail was the only mail handler operating in the UK but with new postal operator licences being applied for and Postcomm looking to deregulate even further, Royal Mail is fighting for business.

Postcomm are presently inviting other operators to contribute to the discussion, and with even talk of splitting Royal Mail, any down-time will ultimately backfire on those keen to return to the battlefields. Even if workers voted to strike, I fail to see what they can possibly achieve by it. Striking won't plug the pension deficit but you can vote for unemployment I guess.

© Hellmail.co.uk (11 March 2008)

[norbert]

There is some good points made , not sure if I agree with all of them , but interesting all the same . I wouldn't take all that too much at face value and I'd be very wary of Hellmail & RM's agendas , Postcon and Brown which can be one and the same thing .

Unfortunately Billy Hayes is mentioned yet again (can't think why -not ) ! but RM do want to divide the CWU.

[dvbuk55]

There is some good points made , not sure if I agree with all of them , but interesting all the same . I wouldn't take all that too much at face value and I'd be very wary of Hellmail & RM's agendas , Postcon and Brown which can be one and the same thing .

Unfortunately Billy Hayes is mentioned yet again (can't think why -not ) ! but RM do want to divide the CWU.

I think RM have done an admirable job of dividing the CWU. Take a look at the spread of the workforce within your own office couple that with the ludicrous local agreements, the evidence of some you can see on here, others will probably be too embarrassed to publish theirs. Many are disillusioned about the nature of the unions negotiations, many of the dealings appear to be less than transparent but the ambition of the leadership only too transparent.

[Night Tonic]

Its a bit near the mark. Could well be that Hayes stuffed that agreement big time - we'll find out I suppose :(

[norbert]

Its a bit near the mark. Could well be that Hayes stuffed that agreement big time - we'll find out I suppose :(

few more talkbacks on "that site" :-On pensions ( totally different tone there ) :-Knocking the bottom out of RM : -The Editor has done a quell surprise, another one on thieving , that site spends a lot of time trawling through threads on" a union meeting in a phone box site" for the basis of some of it's articles .

What a rotten lot we are ! , belligerent , calling managers screws -it'd help if RM didn't run places like Prisons and cloning everybody and purposefully making life difficult for RM , nothing to do with withdrawal of goodwill of course .

[POSTMAN]

Its a bit near the mark. Could well be that Hayes stuffed that agreement big time - we'll find out I suppose :(

few more talkbacks on "that site" :-On pensions ( totally different tone there ) :-Knocking the bottom out of RM : -The Editor has done a quell surprise, another one on thieving , that site spends a lot of time trawling through threads on" a union meeting in a phone box site" for the basis of some of it's articles .

What a rotten lot we are ! , belligerent , calling managers screws -it'd help if RM didn't run places like Prisons and cloning everybody and purposefully making life difficult for RM , nothing to do with withdrawal of goodwill of course .

Sorry Norbs but you're wrong there,there is a 'mass influx of posties sites' out there that they get their info from.
I did ask them for the links so i could suss out the competition but they haven't sent me them yet

Oh and they call the managers 'screws' as well,i thought it was just Tommos influx on here

[norbert]

Its a bit near the mark. Could well be that Hayes stuffed that agreement big time - we'll find out I suppose :(

few more talkbacks on "that site" :-On pensions ( totally different tone there ) :-Knocking the bottom out of RM : -The Editor has done a quell surprise, another one on thieving , that site spends a lot of time trawling through threads on" a union meeting in a phone box site" for the basis of some of it's articles .

What a rotten lot we are ! , belligerent , calling managers screws -it'd help if RM didn't run places like Prisons and cloning everybody and purposefully making life difficult for RM , nothing to do with withdrawal of goodwill of course .

Sorry Norbs but you're wrong there,there is a 'mass influx of posties sites' out there that they get their info from.
I did ask them for the links so i could suss out the competition but they haven't sent me them yet

Oh and they call the managers 'screws' as well,i thought it was just Tommos influx on here

the only stuff I can imagine them getting is the likes of libcom.org , the rest would be the likes of digital spy and the reactionary half wits posting with a few RM Managers as well ! during disputes , the usual sack 'em all and forums for people getting stuff by Post like computer games .

Did well on Saturday in SE7 ? 1-2 , 15th place now , 5 points above the drop zone

Talkback is like a Newspaper with a letters to the editor written by our own journalists section , you can tell by the same phrases and terms being reused , though they could well be genuine and staff using these terms to impress the sites staff and RM as we're a paranoid lot .

Nothing seems too vague or obscure for that site , I'm sure you're shaking in your boots with all that competition . , I guess they haven't the time or inclination to write articles about them.

[BELIAL]

Funny thing is ,there's a poster on here who managed to use the exact,word for word phrases two days before they repeated in that hellmail article. Think of it as techno cluedo

[POSTMAN]

They f***ing hate posties don't they!!

Mr White....

the fact that many (including myself) find special delivery is now the only really reliable way to send anything remotely important. £7.75 to send a parcel to my son, which has no real value but I needed to be certain it would arrive intact, and on time for his birthday instead of
winding up on a rubbish tip somewhere or heaven forbid - in some despondant postie's garage.

[Night Tonic]

I read that article too. Earlier in that piece he went on about the pressures we're all under - and we ARE despondant. Look at the times some of us end up taking mail home cos DOM has gone home - then get RAPPED for it.

[doveston]

it's called hellmail for a reason, it hates everything we do.bunch of arseholes who think the whole of the uk is watching thier site when in fact it's the mary whitehouse's who love to moan,but first in queue to ask a favour and not even give an xmas tip.

[Night Tonic]

Sounds like some of the blokes in our DO - lol. Well somebody reads it. Been there a long time. Talkback section can be hit and miss but good for Euro-postal news. Germany is one to watch i reckon - couldn't CWU forge links wth other postal unions in EU?

[norbert]

They f***ing hate posties don't they!!

Mr White....

the fact that many (including myself) find special delivery is now the only really reliable way to send anything remotely important. £7.75 to send a parcel to my son, which has no real value but I needed to be certain it would arrive intact, and on time for his birthday instead of
winding up on a rubbish tip somewhere or heaven forbid - in some despondent postie's garage.

it's the drip , drip effect that you'll get when these industries are being lined up for privatization, it keeps their advertisers happy .

I got my Yellow Pages yesterday evening , thrown over the gate but I have to be thankful it was near the door , very professional but on Planet Hellfail the staff and service are obviously better than Royal Fail

As long as these Telegraph /Mail reader types have their petty little prejudices confirmed but Hellmail say they are not political .

[jafferpants]

Its a bit near the mark. Could well be that Hayes stuffed that agreement big time - we'll find out I suppose :(

few more talkbacks on "that site" :-On pensions ( totally different tone there ) :-Knocking the bottom out of RM : -The Editor has done a quell surprise, another one on thieving , that site spends a lot of time trawling through threads on" a union meeting in a phone box site" for the basis of some of it's articles .

What a rotten lot we are ! , belligerent , calling managers screws -it'd help if RM didn't run places like Prisons and cloning everybody and purposefully making life difficult for RM , nothing to do with withdrawal of goodwill of course .

As you say norbert "What a rotten lot we are". It's a pity they dont remember that most of us on here are the same "Rotten lot " that were in RM when they were making millions and millions for the respective goverments to hive off with no reinvestment whatsoever. Not so f***ing rotten then were we.

[jemima]

Look at the adverts (or, perhaps, it might be better not to, see below). Then decide whether rational reporting or biassed reporting is most likely...
Add to that the fact that the advertiser(s) will be expecting a certain amount of site traffic for their money, and there are quite a lot of us here who might just visit if prodded.....