Postal workers: Vote no and defend our terms and conditions

[Tman]

I’d be grateful if we could persuade our union to investigate thoroughly so we fully understand the consequences if we do refuse to work under the new terms

You don't need a thorough union investigation to know the consequences of that.
Ultimately employers decide T&Cs with or without union involvement and the workforce goes along with it or finds another job.

[Jen1]

The bit you’re not getting here Woody is that for some of us if these new hours come in we won’t be able to stay in our jobs we will have lost our job

And it angers me that all the union is doing is saying oh well sorry about that

Like I said I love this job but I don’t know if I can afford to keep it

Out of interest, why will you not be able to continue in this job if the hours change? What time are you finishing now? How is an hour going to be make or break for you?

I only ask because you are extremely unlikely to find any alternative work out there that offers the kind of hours we are used to. Unless you work nights, and even then, that will mess with school runs in the morning and impact on home life even more so, if you are having to sleep during the day to prepare for working the midnight shift.

People have been having kids and working for years now. How are they doing it but we can’t?

Lou if you have 4 young kids as some in my office do then that 1 hour equals 4 hours of childcare

And I can tell you about one of my friends experience of family friendly hours because she is going through it right now

Basically the last meeting they had to discuss it the parting statement from one of the managers was you have 4 kids do you think this job is suitable for you anymore!

But that’s not actually my situation and I am attempting to find a solution to my problem but I keep hitting a brick wall and I’m getting very frustrated about it all

So I’d rather not wind myself up more than I already am by discussing my personal situation with someone that doesn’t give a monkeys about me

But thanks for the offer

[LouBarlow]

The bit you’re not getting here Woody is that for some of us if these new hours come in we won’t be able to stay in our jobs we will have lost our job

And it angers me that all the union is doing is saying oh well sorry about that

Like I said I love this job but I don’t know if I can afford to keep it

Out of interest, why will you not be able to continue in this job if the hours change? What time are you finishing now? How is an hour going to be make or break for you?

I only ask because you are extremely unlikely to find any alternative work out there that offers the kind of hours we are used to. Unless you work nights, and even then, that will mess with school runs in the morning and impact on home life even more so, if you are having to sleep during the day to prepare for working the midnight shift.

People have been having kids and working for years now. How are they doing it but we can’t?

Lou if you have 4 young kids as some in my office do then that 1 hour equals 4 hours of childcare

And I can tell you about one of my friends experience of family friendly hours because she is going through it right now

Basically the last meeting they had to discuss it the parting statement from one of the managers was you have 4 kids do you think this job is suitable for you anymore!

But that’s not actually my situation and I am attempting to find a solution to my problem but I keep hitting a brick wall and I’m getting very frustrated about it all

So I’d rather not wind myself up more than I already am by discussing my personal situation with someone that doesn’t give a monkeys about me

But thanks for the offer

Of course I care. maybe share your situation, obliquely if you must, so we can find a solution?

[k979aaa]

The job is f****d and so is the Union as people will leave and not join a bunch of losers which we have done for the last 30 to 40 years.
Unionism is a representative coalition of the willing and able not a dictate from above this is why they have no chance of a future!

[postslippete]

I think its a very poor for an employer that in the past actively recruited postwomen and promoted the job as "family friendly" and quote things like work-life balance have now decided to ignore their workers concerns simply because its a business and the business is changing.

Employers remain at risk of employment tribunal cases and claims for compensation if they fail to grasp employee rights in relation to family life and childcare.

https://www.farleys.com/employers-oblig ... childcare/

[LouBarlow]

I think its a very poor for an employer that in the past actively recruited postwomen and promoted the job as "family friendly" and quote things like work-life balance have now decided to ignore their workers concerns simply because its a business and the business is changing.

Employers remain at risk of employment tribunal cases and claims for compensation if they fail to grasp employee rights in relation to family life and childcare.

https://www.farleys.com/employers-oblig ... childcare/

You’ve linked to an article that mentions paternal/maternal leave and unpaid leave to care for a child. Neither of which are under any threat with this agreement. There is no mention of family friendly hours or any of this work-life balance in any contract of employment, therefore they are in no risk of litigation. You are right though that family friendly hours is a term RM have used, but it is not something that is in any way legally enforceable and I can’t recall hearing it ever since the business was privatised.

[aiden01]

I think its a very poor for an employer that in the past actively recruited postwomen and promoted the job as "family friendly" and quote things like work-life balance have now decided to ignore their workers concerns simply because its a business and the business is changing.

Employers remain at risk of employment tribunal cases and claims for compensation if they fail to grasp employee rights in relation to family life and childcare.

https://www.farleys.com/employers-oblig ... childcare/

You’ve linked to an article that mentions paternal/maternal leave and unpaid leave to care for a child. Neither of which are under any threat with this agreement. There is no mention of family friendly hours or any of this work-life balance in any contract of employment, therefore they are in no risk of litigation. You are right though that family friendly hours is a term RM have used, but it is not something that is in any way legally enforceable and I can’t recall hearing it ever since the business was privatised.

Some people just want to believe everything they gogle just rem google is not law.

[postslippete]

I think its a very poor for an employer that in the past actively recruited postwomen and promoted the job as "family friendly" and quote things like work-life balance have now decided to ignore their workers concerns simply because its a business and the business is changing.

Employers remain at risk of employment tribunal cases and claims for compensation if they fail to grasp employee rights in relation to family life and childcare.

https://www.farleys.com/employers-oblig ... childcare/

You’ve linked to an article that mentions paternal/maternal leave and unpaid leave to care for a child. Neither of which are under any threat with this agreement. There is no mention of family friendly hours or any of this work-life balance in any contract of employment, therefore they are in no risk of litigation. You are right though that family friendly hours is a term RM have used, but it is not something that is in any way legally enforceable and I can’t recall hearing it ever since the business was privatised.

The link was just referring to the sentence highlighted in bold from a solicitors saying about employers obligations regarding employees and childcare.



In 2020 Royal Mail also produced this booklet and in it there is a section which says Showing support for parents and carers - Many of our people balance parental and caring responsibilities with their career. We advocate for carers and offer support to those who need it, our aim is to help colleagues balance these duties with their day-to-day working life.


https://www.royalmail.com/sites/royalma ... -03-21.pdf


Now I'm not saying that the company have to do anything - but in doing so, refer to the point I made in bold. We are not legal experts but there is plenty of information on this subject, even if it is on google. Always seek independent legal advice and don't just rely on the CWU for advice as its clear how good their legal teams are.

[LouBarlow]

I think its a very poor for an employer that in the past actively recruited postwomen and promoted the job as "family friendly" and quote things like work-life balance have now decided to ignore their workers concerns simply because its a business and the business is changing.

Employers remain at risk of employment tribunal cases and claims for compensation if they fail to grasp employee rights in relation to family life and childcare.

https://www.farleys.com/employers-oblig ... childcare/

You’ve linked to an article that mentions paternal/maternal leave and unpaid leave to care for a child. Neither of which are under any threat with this agreement. There is no mention of family friendly hours or any of this work-life balance in any contract of employment, therefore they are in no risk of litigation. You are right though that family friendly hours is a term RM have used, but it is not something that is in any way legally enforceable and I can’t recall hearing it ever since the business was privatised.

The link was just referring to the sentence highlighted in bold from a solicitors saying about employers obligations regarding employees and childcare.



In 2020 Royal Mail also produced this booklet and in it there is a section which says Showing support for parents and carers - Many of our people balance parental and caring responsibilities with their career. We advocate for carers and offer support to those who need it, our aim is to help colleagues balance these duties with their day-to-day working life.


https://www.royalmail.com/sites/royalma ... -03-21.pdf


Now I'm not saying that the company have to do anything - but in doing so, refer to the point I made in bold. We are not legal experts but there is plenty of information on this subject, even if it is on google. Always seek independent legal advice and don't just rely on the CWU for advice as its clear how good their legal teams are.

Don’t get me wrong, I agree that the company should be doing more for parents with school age kids, but that pamphlet is fluff really. It doesn’t offer anything substantive, but then neither does the agreement we are all discussing, which does make a passing mention of family friendly considerations, again without mentioning anything more.

I expect it will be down to individual offices to try and make allowances for parents, such as ours does. We have had late finishes for years now, and parents have coped. In our case, it has been allowing those who need it, to have their full break at the end of the duty, but this is not ideal as it goes against RM policy and is a H&S consideration as well. I’m not sure there is a solution.

[Constance]

Delivery is so physical that it's only feasible comfortably for the young. The young are raising children. If the wider family isn't prepared to do it for free, you can't earn enough at Royal Mail to pay for childcare. The reason most people will accept terrible work conditions (weather, pressure etc) is to achieve a better work life balance. Without this, what's the benefit in staying in the job? The money is awful on delivery for the nature of the work and the high productivity levels required. I am very interested to see who actually does this job in 10 years after all the change.

[Shadedpostie]

Delivery is so physical that it's only feasible comfortably for the young. The young are raising children. If the wider family isn't prepared to do it for free, you can't earn enough at Royal Mail to pay for childcare. The reason most people will accept terrible work conditions (weather, pressure etc) is to achieve a better work life balance. Without this, what's the benefit in staying in the job? The money is awful on delivery for the nature of the work and the high productivity levels required. I am very interested to see who actually does this job in 10 years after all the change.

Hell I'm in my 30s and single and already thinking of tapping out. The f**k kind of life is when you get home and your body is tired to the point you are falling asleep instantly soon as your ass sits down but end up permanently messing up your sleeping pattern. Yeah I know people are going to pipe up and say "work to time". The problem is I actually have been since this dispute and feel more wiped out than did before. Think it's more that you are walking the extra miles when walk doesn't go out for days so going to delivery points you normally skip on a normal day. That and round been screwed over due to revision putting extra flats on my round, like I didn't have enough of them already. Was barely finishing on time when it was normal so I don't know what idiot decided, "you know what? Let's add more onto this round! "

[Constance]

You are right on the exhaustion. I left this year after several on duty injuries and when I just couldn't recover sufficiently to do it all again the next day I knew it was time. That's the thing -you are working just to survive the next grueling day. I've got my weekends back and didn't realise how much I'd given up by working Saturdays. Bank holidays are glorious again. Hope you make the move. You won't regret it. It is not a piss easy job. You need grit and resilience and more stamina than I think is worth the pay.

[SpacePhoenix]

In our case, it has been allowing those who need it, to have their full break at the end of the duty, but this is not ideal as it goes against RM policy and is a H&S consideration as well. I’m not sure there is a solution.

Also risky as there's the risk of hours being taken out of the DO. Higher up won't care about the reason, they'll just see someone leaving early every day

[norris9]

If this ends up being a NO vote, then I will facepalm. I strongly believe a NO vote would end up with us being offered a worse deal further down the line when the company is in even more dire straits.

[SpacePhoenix]

If this ends up being a NO vote, then I will facepalm. I strongly believe a NO vote would end up with us being offered a worse deal further down the line when the company is in even more dire straits.

This deal or any deal worse than it, will get a massive NO vote. Think the alternative will be a mass exodus of staff from the company, especially from deliveries, then RM will be well and truly f****d