If you look at past agreements over the past couple of decades they are never in our best interests but the companies and shareholders. Our terms and conditions have changed along with the business having to adapt to change with our competitors always being one step ahead. I don't mind change, but with the rate of change that's happened over the past six months I think we deserve better.
I've looked at this agreement about 10x and i can't get my head around why you would change the sick attendance, especially in the sort of job we do physically and mentally draining every day in all weathers hot or cold. Yes the 1% take the p*** but it shouldn't mean penalise us all. VR's along with IHR packages are now reduced to pretty much nothing. Later starts is a biggy for half the staff that I work with in the office, mainly parents and grandparents at my office are going to have to seek alternative employment if RM say 'No sorry you can't pick up your child from school, you'll have to stay till half 4 like the rest of us'. So much for family friendly.
Sometimes it's not all about the money and trying to strike a balance of work and having a life.
Couldn't have put it any better myself.
On the face of it, shareholder value is the dumbest idea in the world.
They're gunna push through the changes regardless of the vote
They cant push the seasonal hours without change of contract they are banking on a yes vote for collective bargaining where the majority agrees to the change,legally they have to pay you for the hours worked not in 8 months time,it would be brave for them to push forward without the yes vote because they would be in breach of contract,the union are not telling you this because they dont want the hassle of what happens next,i urge everyone to think hard on voting yes as once you do your signing all your rights away the CWU wont tell you this.
Are you sure I bet they could if they are losing money especially.
Legally they cant as long as you vote NO, vote yes and collective bargaining comes into play and you lose any right to breach of contract,its imperative if you don't want seasonal hours you have to vote NO.
Collective bargaining means "legally" there doesn't need to be a vote....the "collective" bit is the union officially negotiating on behalf of the membership. The vote is purely admin from a legal perspective the "agreement" is already signed.
They're gunna push through the changes regardless of the vote
But it would be cheaper for RM to run their business with 115,000 employees on board, even if RM were made to improve the deal. The most expensive option for RM would be to prolonge this without the backing and acceptance of its workforce
They're gunna push through the changes regardless of the vote
They cant push the seasonal hours without change of contract they are banking on a yes vote for collective bargaining where the majority agrees to the change,legally they have to pay you for the hours worked not in 8 months time,it would be brave for them to push forward without the yes vote because they would be in breach of contract,the union are not telling you this because they dont want the hassle of what happens next,i urge everyone to think hard on voting yes as once you do your signing all your rights away the CWU wont tell you this.
Are you sure I bet they could if they are losing money especially.
Legally they cant as long as you vote NO, vote yes and collective bargaining comes into play and you lose any right to breach of contract,its imperative if you don't want seasonal hours you have to vote NO.
Collective bargaining means "legally" there doesn't need to be a vote....the "collective" bit is the union officially negotiating on behalf of the membership. The vote is purely admin from a legal perspective the "agreement" is already signed.
Not until its ratified by the membership,its an agreement in principle.
They're gunna push through the changes regardless of the vote
But it would be cheaper for RM to run their business with 115,000 employees on board, even if RM were made to improve the deal. The most expensive option for RM would be to prolonge this without the backing and acceptance of its workforce
Exactly ,in my workplace production has slowed ,nobody cares and most couldn't give a hoots about the threat of sacking anymore as the job is that bad ,once you lose the dressing room you lose business and money its going to take an amazing manager to turn this s**t show around now.
They're gunna push through the changes regardless of the vote
They cant push the seasonal hours without change of contract they are banking on a yes vote for collective bargaining where the majority agrees to the change,legally they have to pay you for the hours worked not in 8 months time,it would be brave for them to push forward without the yes vote because they would be in breach of contract,the union are not telling you this because they dont want the hassle of what happens next,i urge everyone to think hard on voting yes as once you do your signing all your rights away the CWU wont tell you this.
Are you sure I bet they could if they are losing money especially.
Legally they cant as long as you vote NO, vote yes and collective bargaining comes into play and you lose any right to breach of contract,its imperative if you don't want seasonal hours you have to vote NO.
Collective bargaining means "legally" there doesn't need to be a vote....the "collective" bit is the union officially negotiating on behalf of the membership. The vote is purely admin from a legal perspective the "agreement" is already signed.
Not until its ratified by the membership,its an agreement in principle.
Yes, in terms of union rules etc........pretty sure legally it's different.
You don't really believe that do you,within 3 years it will be 3 hours anyway but they will use seasonal and flexi to move you nearer that anyway ,its just a way of giving it all away and slowly downgrading our working conditions its been going on since privatisation with the help of the CWU,hopefully posties have woken up to this,their is no pluses for a yes vote,don't forget the yes vote allows them finally to use your pda actual's against you,counselling then conduct making it easier to get rid of you,and longer on a stage after sick another way of getting rid of people and pressure on the vulnerable,longer outdoor work plus cutting indoor work,its your right to vote how you wish,hopefully some posties will start to see the whole picture not just the £ signs,a yes vote and anyone of us could be gone at anytime.
Yes, I really believe that. Why do you keep saying there are no pluses for a yes vote? A yes will see you receive a pay increase, a lump sum and union involvement in your employment rights going forward. If you vote no, you lose all of this and give Royal Mail free rein to bring in any changes they want, including an immediate change to working hours, instead of from next March. And by the three hours they originally wanted.
The problem is the Union have massively got it wrong from the get go.
All the posters and slogans, wishes and promises.
By in large RM are getting exactly what they want from the sell out. They probably said 3 hours later on the proviso that they would meet in the middle - its not a victory or concession in anyway, so we need to give up with that crap.
A no strings pay rise and win the ballot win the dispute - utter nonsense.
The problem is the Union have massively got it wrong from the get go.
All the posters and slogans, wishes and promises.
By in large RM are getting exactly what they want from the sell out. They probably said 3 hours later on the proviso that they would meet in the middle - its not a victory or concession in anyway, so we need to give up with that crap.
A no strings pay rise and win the ballot win the dispute - utter nonsense.
They're gunna push through the changes regardless of the vote
They cant push the seasonal hours without change of contract they are banking on a yes vote for collective bargaining where the majority agrees to the change,legally they have to pay you for the hours worked not in 8 months time,it would be brave for them to push forward without the yes vote because they would be in breach of contract,the union are not telling you this because they dont want the hassle of what happens next,i urge everyone to think hard on voting yes as once you do your signing all your rights away the CWU wont tell you this.
Are you sure I bet they could if they are losing money especially.
Legally they cant as long as you vote NO, vote yes and collective bargaining comes into play and you lose any right to breach of contract,its imperative if you don't want seasonal hours you have to vote NO.
There will be no need for seasonal hours if you vote no as Royal Mail will then revert back to their original plan of moving start times by 3 hours, which was successfully reduced to just one hour by the union. You are voting against a one hour change and for a 3 hour one. And it is perfectly legal and adhering to your contract.
I’m not going to stop educating people on the reality of what they are voting for. I think that would be pretty clear by the amount of times I have been insulted on here. People who have the decency to reach more than double digits in their post history before doing so too.
You don't really believe that do you,within 3 years it will be 3 hours anyway but they will use seasonal and flexi to move you nearer that anyway ,its just a way of giving it all away and slowly downgrading our working conditions its been going on since privatisation with the help of the CWU,hopefully posties have woken up to this,their is no pluses for a yes vote,don't forget the yes vote allows them finally to use your pda actual's against you,counselling then conduct making it easier to get rid of you,and longer on a stage after sick another way of getting rid of people and pressure on the vulnerable,longer outdoor work plus cutting indoor work,its your right to vote how you wish,hopefully some posties will start to see the whole picture not just the £ signs,a yes vote and anyone of us could be gone at anytime.
Yes, I really believe that. Why do you keep saying there are no pluses for a yes vote? A yes will see you receive a pay increase, a lump sum and union involvement in your employment rights going forward. If you vote no, you lose all of this and give Royal Mail free rein to bring in any changes they want, including an immediate change to working hours, instead of from next March. And by the three hours they originally wanted.
Support your union.
How do you know this? Voting No does not mean RM will not be willing to negotiate a better deal. Do you have inside information that RM will plough on with their plans forever without a deal? How do you know this information? If you just analyse the situation...It is in their interest to clinch a deal, even if they have to improve it. Do you really think this business can continue successfully without a resolution? The most expensive strategy for them would be to plough on without a deal. How do you not Understand ABC?
You don't really believe that do you,within 3 years it will be 3 hours anyway but they will use seasonal and flexi to move you nearer that anyway ,its just a way of giving it all away and slowly downgrading our working conditions its been going on since privatisation with the help of the CWU,hopefully posties have woken up to this,their is no pluses for a yes vote,don't forget the yes vote allows them finally to use your pda actual's against you,counselling then conduct making it easier to get rid of you,and longer on a stage after sick another way of getting rid of people and pressure on the vulnerable,longer outdoor work plus cutting indoor work,its your right to vote how you wish,hopefully some posties will start to see the whole picture not just the £ signs,a yes vote and anyone of us could be gone at anytime.
Yes, I really believe that. Why do you keep saying there are no pluses for a yes vote? A yes will see you receive a pay increase, a lump sum and union involvement in your employment rights going forward. If you vote no, you lose all of this and give Royal Mail free rein to bring in any changes they want, including an immediate change to working hours, instead of from next March. And by the three hours they originally wanted.
Support your union.
And lose IHR,first 3 days of sick,conducted for pda actuals,what makes you think they will help you they cant even help suspended reps,an under inflation payrise,its got union self preservation all over it,it will go to 3 hours in the next couple of years anyway,a 2 tier workforce,does anyone know if this is a collective bargaining agreement if so they have sold us out so what would be the point of voting.Me i'll be voting NO just because i personally think the red line has been crossed.
You don't really believe that do you,within 3 years it will be 3 hours anyway but they will use seasonal and flexi to move you nearer that anyway ,its just a way of giving it all away and slowly downgrading our working conditions its been going on since privatisation with the help of the CWU,hopefully posties have woken up to this,their is no pluses for a yes vote,don't forget the yes vote allows them finally to use your pda actual's against you,counselling then conduct making it easier to get rid of you,and longer on a stage after sick another way of getting rid of people and pressure on the vulnerable,longer outdoor work plus cutting indoor work,its your right to vote how you wish,hopefully some posties will start to see the whole picture not just the £ signs,a yes vote and anyone of us could be gone at anytime.
Yes, I really believe that. Why do you keep saying there are no pluses for a yes vote? A yes will see you receive a pay increase, a lump sum and union involvement in your employment rights going forward. If you vote no, you lose all of this and give Royal Mail free rein to bring in any changes they want, including an immediate change to working hours, instead of from next March. And by the three hours they originally wanted.
Support your union.
How do you know this? Voting No does not mean RM will not be willing to negotiate a better deal. Do you have inside information that RM will plough on with their plans forever without a deal? How do you know this information? If you just analyse the situation...It is in their interest to clinch a deal, even if they have to improve it. Do you really think this business can continue successfully without a resolution? The most expensive strategy for them would be to plough on without a deal. How do you not Understand ABC?
How do I know this? Because Royal Mail, the CWU and the PEC have all come out and said it. What evidence do you have to disprove my comment?
