Vote No.

[smartin1982]

Some people are choacking to lay back and have their bellies rubbed. Once the terms and cons go, they are gone for good and they will be back for more just round the corner. Pathetic.

What do you think will happen to your T&Cs in the event of a no-vote result?

What do you think will happen?!

List us the facts.

So you can’t answer then, or? What will happen? These changes will be brought in, perhaps sooner than March for the start time changes, pay rise and lump sum will be off the table, and Royal Mail will be free to bring in their original 3 hour change to shift patterns, as they proposed initially.

For starters.

You didn’t ask me.

Also, none of the above are facts.
Again, list us what you know will happen .

[Woody Guthrie]

I’ve also said to you before, you patronising little tit rifle, that whatever happens after a no is of no concern or importance to me

Thankfully there are adults in the room who do think that what happens to members, their jobs and their financial security after a no vote is both concerning and important.

[smartin1982]

Way to take a comment out of context for your own benefit.
You should join the Conservative Party.

[LouBarlow]

You didn’t ask me.

Also, none of the above are facts.
Again, list us what you know will happen .

Ok I’ll ask you now then - what do you think happens to our t&cs if this agreement is tossed out? My assessment is based on what I am being told by Royal Mail, the CWU and the PEC. It is a prediction based on three parties involved with these negotiations. I trust people with more expertise than myself to make assumptions about my future working conditions. Hence why I am voting for the agreement all three are recommending on my behalf.

Now if you have any other hypothesis based on your own sources it only seems fair that you offer them up. You might change my mind. Who knows?

[k979aaa]

Look I know this thread is long with different opinions we can all have our say on here about the agreement not the person posting their own opinion. As someone once said opinions are like arseholes everyone has got one!

[blue90]

If Royal Mail think they can just pay me off with £1400 and get me to vote yes on the ballot then they are absolutely correct.

[k979aaa]

If Royal Mail think they can just pay me off with £1400 and get me to vote yes on the ballot then they are absolutely correct.

Just to fully inform you if it gets voted for and £500 pro rata taxed and the other payment is 29 on september also taxed pro rata just the facts!

[nuisance]

Again you’re missing the point which is that we should be voting on what’s in front of us

No we shouldn't.
That's just stupid and simplistic.

At some point you have to make a decision whether that's all there is on offer and whether you have any more leverage to achieve anything more no matter what is in front of you. You also have to weigh up the risks of that deal being pulled off the table.

That's pretty much page one in negotiations for beginners.

Most people get it. It's an adult thing.

Surely you've bought or sold a car before, put in an offer for a house, sold something on ebay...

Both the union and the business have helped you with this difficult concept, they've both pretty much said that's all there is.

Do you know differently? It seems the No voters think there is, I'm f****d if I know where they are getting this information from. I've asked them to share but they're keeping it to themselves for some reason.

We are not stupid, naive, simple or any of your other insults thank you very much.

We have leverage. We turn up in our mass numbers and keep grafting to keep their business going. Without us they have absolutely Jack and, as rightly pointed out in the select committee performance, there isn't some mass pool of alternative workers ready and waiting to jump into our shoes instead should RM continue to want more and give back much less.

Page one of negotiations is.. "So what's in it for me if I give you what you want?"
RM wants loads.
The Union have given them loads.
So what was in it for us? A piss poor pay rise that we just about would have had anyway, our own pension surplus and pro-rata £500?
They must have got much more for themselves, not their members, because that is the essence of negotiation. The members must not accept it as an outcome. Whatever it takes, beginning with a No vote.

[Foxel]

Nothing has changed to make me even think about voting yes. Managers are already pushing their luck, boundaries have been knocked down, blood, sweat and tears aren't enough for them. A few more £'s for the taxman isn't going to make my physical and mental well being any better. Screw um. I want to be well enough to watch my children grow up.

[Woody Guthrie]

We are not stupid, naive, simple or any of your other insults thank you very much.

I didn't call anyone stupid.
It's the point that's stupid.

We have leverage. We turn up in our mass numbers and keep grafting to keep their business going. Without us they have absolutely Jack and, as rightly pointed out in the select committee performance, there isn't some mass pool of alternative workers ready and waiting to jump into our shoes instead should RM continue to want more and give back much less.

So how do you turn the fact that every employer needs employees into leverage?
We've tried strikes with little impact and the appetite for more is questionable at best.
Do we threaten to resign en masse?

Employers need employees.
Employees need employment.
That's not leverage, unless you can actually do something with it, it's a stalemate.

[LouBarlow]

Again you’re missing the point which is that we should be voting on what’s in front of us

No we shouldn't.
That's just stupid and simplistic.

At some point you have to make a decision whether that's all there is on offer and whether you have any more leverage to achieve anything more no matter what is in front of you. You also have to weigh up the risks of that deal being pulled off the table.

That's pretty much page one in negotiations for beginners.

Most people get it. It's an adult thing.

Surely you've bought or sold a car before, put in an offer for a house, sold something on ebay...

Both the union and the business have helped you with this difficult concept, they've both pretty much said that's all there is.

Do you know differently? It seems the No voters think there is, I'm f****d if I know where they are getting this information from. I've asked them to share but they're keeping it to themselves for some reason.

We are not stupid, naive, simple or any of your other insults thank you very much.

We have leverage. We turn up in our mass numbers and keep grafting to keep their business going. Without us they have absolutely Jack and, as rightly pointed out in the select committee performance, there isn't some mass pool of alternative workers ready and waiting to jump into our shoes instead should RM continue to want more and give back much less.

Page one of negotiations is.. "So what's in it for me if I give you what you want?"
RM wants loads.
The Union have given them loads.
So what was in it for us? A piss poor pay rise that we just about would have had anyway, our own pension surplus and pro-rata £500?
They must have got much more for themselves, not their members, because that is the essence of negotiation. The members must not accept it as an outcome. Whatever it takes, beginning with a No vote.

What do you believe will be achieved by a no vote result? Do you believe it will prevent Royal Mail implementing the changes in the agreement either way? Nobody has ever answered this question, so you could be a trailblazer here if you manage it.

[nuisance]

1 New negotiators. The last ones have just given away lots and gained naf all. Except for whatever they must have won for themselves.

2. Strikes that actually really do cost them. Not just delay by a day or two which RM are happy to do to their customers anyway. All out on the weeks that matter. We should have been out at least a fortnight last december, that's our maximum leverage and the union squandered it. Every bank holiday parcel ordering rockets - out for the next few days after them. RM whined that the strikes cost them money, well show them we can really cost them money, that's really all they're bothered about.

3. Organised non-compliance. We're all still toeing the line, except for Glasglow. If the union leads us in enormous awkwardness, amplified withdrawral of goodwill is what can break the stalemate.

[RTP]

Great thread.

The extra £900 will swing the vote. £500 alone would have made it too close to call. The CWU knew this and so did Royal Mail. In previous agreements where there have been major changes we have had lump sums and in affect been paid for the changes. The last time was the BT2010 agreement when we received £1000 (pro rata).

I will be voting yes, because no amount of chest thumping will be able to get a better deal than what is on the table now.

[aiden01]

1 New negotiators. The last ones have just given away lots and gained naf all. Except for whatever they must have won for themselves.

2. Strikes that actually really do cost them. Not just delay by a day or two which RM are happy to do to their customers anyway. All out on the weeks that matter. We should have been out at least a fortnight last december, that's our maximum leverage and the union squandered it. Every bank holiday parcel ordering rockets - out for the next few days after them. RM whined that the strikes cost them money, well show them we can really cost them money, that's really all they're bothered about.

3. Organised non-compliance. We're all still toeing the line, except for Glasglow. If the union leads us in enormous awkwardness, amplified withdrawral of goodwill is what can break the stalemate.

Do you honestly think people will go out for a week or weeks at a time.

[77SAMPOST77]

1 New negotiators. The last ones have just given away lots and gained naf all. Except for whatever they must have won for themselves.

2. Strikes that actually really do cost them. Not just delay by a day or two which RM are happy to do to their customers anyway. All out on the weeks that matter. We should have been out at least a fortnight last december, that's our maximum leverage and the union squandered it. Every bank holiday parcel ordering rockets - out for the next few days after them. RM whined that the strikes cost them money, well show them we can really cost them money, that's really all they're bothered about.

3. Organised non-compliance. We're all still toeing the line, except for Glasglow. If the union leads us in enormous awkwardness, amplified withdrawral of goodwill is what can break the stalemate.

Do you honestly think people will go out for a week or weeks at a time.

I would .