£ 900

[RobertT]

Blimey!
I thought this was the place to come for adult discussion.

I've spent many years on this forum trying to help posties with their pension questions.
I now express an opinion that's different to somebody else's and I get called selfish.

It makes financial sense for a family or individual to have an emergency fund in case they lose their job, etc. Advisors say you should have at least 3 months wages tucked away.

I see the escrow account as exactly that, but for the RMPP.

No sensible person spends their emergency fund on a nice holiday, for example. And equally I don't think the escrow money should be spent on a bribe to get this agreement voted in.

That's my opinion and I'm entitled to it, just like anybody else!

As a now retired postie who has probably paid into the pension scheme for many years then I do think Robert has a right to be concerned about his pension but I do not think that is the purpose of his post at all. He is merely showing concern at how wrong this proposed action is.

Exactly right, thanks.

[Neverwasadoor]

Well said Robert,
would it of been an option to put all the money in the CDC pension to give it a good start?
I will not be in that section for long if it starts, so not being selfish either !

[RobertT]

Well said Robert,
would it of been an option to put all the money in the CDC pension to give it a good start?
I will not be in that section for long if it starts, so not being selfish either !

If it all went into CDC, it would at least stay within the realm of RM pensions. Although personally I think it should stay exactly where it is, and be there to assist and benefit all RMPP members.

I've never expected to be in CDC for long, and am quite disappointed I won't have first hand knowledge of how it all pans out. Although I will be taking an interest from afar.
I hope it's a success well into the future.

[renrag40]

I agree with RobertT that it should stay in RMPP to be used if the pension fund falls into deficit in the future.
I don't think it should be used to seed a future pension scheme that may never start.
Nor to be used as a bribe to try and achieve a yes vote on a pay deal.
Nor to fund a special dividend to the "long suffering" shareholders.
Nor to fund the "well earned" bonuses and share options for management.
Who could possibly trust Royal Mail with £2,000,000,000 given how they squandered £750,000 000 profits made on our backs?
I'm well aware that it is Royal Mails money. If they cared about the financial well being of their present and future pensioners within the RMPP they would leave the escrowed account well alone. But I think we all know that they couldn't care less about their past, present and future employees........ even those like RobertT that gave them 36 years service.

[freespeech]

The experts in Royal Mail's pension position are the trustees and their advisors and if they have decided with all the proper facts to hand that the escrow account is unnecessary I defer to their expertise over a retired postie.

The argument over "family silver" is simplistic and shows a complete lack of understanding in how Royal Mail's funding obligation works.

It makes just as much sense to say that any money they give us in any pay deal is the "family silver" since it is all just cash on the balance sheet.

I'm kind of disappointment in your selfish attitude Robert, active members need financial help now, you may not have any interest in this deal and are only worried about your own pension but the vast majority of us do not wish to see that money rotting away in an escrow account until Royal Mail see fit to do what they want with it.

As a now retired postie who has probably paid into the pension scheme for many years then I do think Robert has a right to be concerned about his pension but I do not think that is the purpose of his post at all. He is merely showing concern at how wrong this proposed action is. Also Woody, do you think it's right that all staff will be paid this POSSIBLE £900, and that includes managers who have been well bribed and "looked after" over the past year or so? There's too many ifs and buts in this agreement for me to vote yes.

If the escrow fund is for "everyone" then I suspect it has to be paid out to "everyone" too. To me the bigger issue is that the payment will no doubt also be to people that aren't even in the RMPP.

[Woody Guthrie]

It makes financial sense for a family or individual to have an emergency fund in case they lose their job, etc. Advisors say you should have at least 3 months wages tucked away.

I see the escrow account as exactly that, but for the RMPP.

Then you're not really understanding the dynamic.
The escrow account isn't anything to do with our "family".

No matter what Royal Mail has to fund the RMPP pension unless they go bankrupt.

Do you actually believe that money would be allowed to lie on escrow as the business approached bankruptcy?

Even if they did go bankrupt that asset which is all it is would go to the preferred creditors.
There is literally no scenario where Royal Mail could legally renage on its pension liability and that escrow account would still be intact.

If the RMPP was still open you would have a point because a deficit could cause contributions to become unaffordable and it could close but it's already closed.

Can you explain the situation where Royal Mail would be so broke that they couldn't afford a long term payment schedule to fund a deficit on a closed and therefore limited liability fund but on the other hand wouldn't be so broke that they wouldn't just take the whole escrow to fund oh I don't know... general operating costs.

If it's an emergency fund and we were in such a state of emergency it would be used on far more urgent emergencies long before it got anywhere near the pension fund.

[RobertT]

Then you're not really understanding the dynamic.
The escrow account isn't anything to do with our "family".

It was an example. Lol

No matter what Royal Mail has to fund the RMPP pension unless they go bankrupt.

Correct.

Do you actually believe that money would be allowed to lie on escrow as the business approached bankruptcy?

Even if they did go bankrupt that asset which is all it is would go to the preferred creditors.
There is literally no scenario where Royal Mail could legally renage on its pension liability and that escrow account would still be intact.

If the RMPP was still open you would have a point because a deficit could cause contributions to become unaffordable and it could close but it's already closed.

Can you explain the situation where Royal Mail would be so broke that they couldn't afford a long term payment schedule to fund a deficit on a closed and therefore limited liability fund but on the other hand wouldn't be so broke that they wouldn't just take the whole escrow to fund oh I don't know... general operating costs.

If it's an emergency fund and we were in such a state of emergency it would be used on far more urgent emergencies long before it got anywhere near the pension fund.

All irrelevant if it's already been used to bribe the workforce to accept the agreement, and prop up a new pension scheme that hasn't even started yet.

I think you need to take a chill pill mate, as I'm far too laid back to really give a sh!t!

[Jack1960]

Didnt know you had retired Robert T , I and dozens more owe you thanks for all the help you have given over the years
I hope you enjoy your retirement and that you look on from time to time!

[Wullie10]

It's basically Bank of England bail out money. Like the famous Dads Army episode where everyone is owed money and the same cash is passed around till everyone is paid.

[Gary55]

Then you're not really understanding the dynamic.
The escrow account isn't anything to do with our "family".

It was an example. Lol

No matter what Royal Mail has to fund the RMPP pension unless they go bankrupt.

Correct.

Do you actually believe that money would be allowed to lie on escrow as the business approached bankruptcy?

Even if they did go bankrupt that asset which is all it is would go to the preferred creditors.
There is literally no scenario where Royal Mail could legally renage on its pension liability and that escrow account would still be intact.

If the RMPP was still open you would have a point because a deficit could cause contributions to become unaffordable and it could close but it's already closed.

Can you explain the situation where Royal Mail would be so broke that they couldn't afford a long term payment schedule to fund a deficit on a closed and therefore limited liability fund but on the other hand wouldn't be so broke that they wouldn't just take the whole escrow to fund oh I don't know... general operating costs.

If it's an emergency fund and we were in such a state of emergency it would be used on far more urgent emergencies long before it got anywhere near the pension fund.

All irrelevant if it's already been used to bribe the workforce to accept the agreement, and prop up a new pension scheme that hasn't even started yet.

I think you need to take a chill pill mate, as I'm far too laid back to really give a sh!t!

Happy retirement T and thanks for all the help

[Wullie10]

I hope Robert has not retired from the forum. It will be lost without him.

[rogersh]

Didnt know you had retired Robert T , I and dozens more owe you thanks for all the help you have given over the years
I hope you enjoy your retirement and that you look on from time to time!

I echo this post.

PS. I do defer to the expertise of a retired postie.

[Trumanity]

The experts in Royal Mail's pension position are the trustees and their advisors and if they have decided with all the proper facts to hand that the escrow account is unnecessary I defer to their expertise over a retired postie.

The argument over "family silver" is simplistic and shows a complete lack of understanding in how Royal Mail's funding obligation works.

It makes just as much sense to say that any money they give us in any pay deal is the "family silver" since it is all just cash on the balance sheet.

I'm kind of disappointment in your selfish attitude Robert, active members need financial help now, you may not have any interest in this deal and are only worried about your own pension but the vast majority of us do not wish to see that money rotting away in an escrow account until Royal Mail see fit to do what they want with it.

[gimba]

Can't wait for this yes vote, got slated, name calling for not going on strike and backing the union

So now for sure I've learnt to back the Union as I don't want to be bullied anymore, thanks everyone and can't wait to back out union with the biggest yes vote in history

[renrag40]

Can't wait for this yes vote, got slated, name calling for not going on strike and backing the union

So now for sure I've learnt to back the Union as I don't want to be bullied anymore, thanks everyone and can't wait to back out union with the biggest yes vote in history

Wow! Your feeling of self vindication and self satisfaction is nauseating.