Alternative to voting yes.

[milly]

IMHO we're all in a controlled and toxic situation which is going to follow its planned trajectory wether we vote Y or N.

Either way we lose.

Y = Agree to everything and give our united seal of approval to RM and CWU (as enablers).

N = Agree to disagree.

The strike action only enbaled RM to feed the Mainstream Media with more excuses and blame which the MSM are happy to exploit. It achieved nothing.

The alternative might be to vote a 'Passive No'.

Industrial action in our case is only a buzzword for the media anyway? So does it matter if its active or passive?

To vote No against both RM and the CWU top-table and active industrial action and to simply leave 'the ball in their court' to do with as wish wthout agreement from us. To deny them legal and moral authority from us and to decline to be party to what they're going to do to us anyway?

For those who think that an agreement with RM is worth something re: job security or T's&C's, I'm not sure what it is about previous agreements, CWU oversight of them or implementaion of them allows for that belief.

The only alternative to Vote Yes or abstain (which is a tacit Yes) is Vote No.

The T's&C's and tactics of that 'No' is the only alternative we have to capitulation and I just cannot understand why or how anyone thinks that a Capitulatory Yes will buy them credibility, safety or security.

Very few jobs in the UK offer Job security and anybody voting Yes like myself are under no illusions that voting Yes will protect my Job, however voting No in the current dire economic climate may well fastrack you to the dole queue.
Most people on here are only capable of binary thinking.
To abstain isn't a tacit Yes unless the majority vote Yes, abstention just means you are happy for other people to make the decision for you.

Why does silly milly keep on about the dole Queue there are loads of jobs available ,
We have had 15 people leave this year for other jobs more will follow after the latest revisions .

There are plenty of minimum wage job's available with far worse conditions than what we are on, even after this deal is voted in.
Maybe a dose of the real World would be good for you.

Stop your silly scaremongering Milly , All the people who have left at our place have gone on to better jobs and better conditions not all of the many jobs out there are minimum wage ,

Don't believe you, have a look on Indeed and see what's available.

[77SAMPOST77]

IMHO we're all in a controlled and toxic situation which is going to follow its planned trajectory wether we vote Y or N.

Either way we lose.

Y = Agree to everything and give our united seal of approval to RM and CWU (as enablers).

N = Agree to disagree.

The strike action only enbaled RM to feed the Mainstream Media with more excuses and blame which the MSM are happy to exploit. It achieved nothing.

The alternative might be to vote a 'Passive No'.

Industrial action in our case is only a buzzword for the media anyway? So does it matter if its active or passive?

To vote No against both RM and the CWU top-table and active industrial action and to simply leave 'the ball in their court' to do with as wish wthout agreement from us. To deny them legal and moral authority from us and to decline to be party to what they're going to do to us anyway?

For those who think that an agreement with RM is worth something re: job security or T's&C's, I'm not sure what it is about previous agreements, CWU oversight of them or implementaion of them allows for that belief.

The only alternative to Vote Yes or abstain (which is a tacit Yes) is Vote No.

The T's&C's and tactics of that 'No' is the only alternative we have to capitulation and I just cannot understand why or how anyone thinks that a Capitulatory Yes will buy them credibility, safety or security.

Very few jobs in the UK offer Job security and anybody voting Yes like myself are under no illusions that voting Yes will protect my Job, however voting No in the current dire economic climate may well fastrack you to the dole queue.
Most people on here are only capable of binary thinking.
To abstain isn't a tacit Yes unless the majority vote Yes, abstention just means you are happy for other people to make the decision for you.

Why does silly milly keep on about the dole Queue there are loads of jobs available ,
We have had 15 people leave this year for other jobs more will follow after the latest revisions .

There are plenty of minimum wage job's available with far worse conditions than what we are on, even after this deal is voted in.
Maybe a dose of the real World would be good for you.

Stop your silly scaremongering Milly , All the people who have left at our place have gone on to better jobs and better conditions not all of the many jobs out there are minimum wage ,

Don't believe you, have a look on Indeed and see what's available.

Not all jobs are on indeed only a fraction in fact ,
Jobs are in job centers , Advertised outside of workplaces , in the local paper , I have even seen them on lamp posts at traffic lights ,
If you are voting yes Milly fair enough but stop trying to scare everybody else in to voting yes .

[milly]

IMHO we're all in a controlled and toxic situation which is going to follow its planned trajectory wether we vote Y or N.

Either way we lose.

Y = Agree to everything and give our united seal of approval to RM and CWU (as enablers).

N = Agree to disagree.

The strike action only enbaled RM to feed the Mainstream Media with more excuses and blame which the MSM are happy to exploit. It achieved nothing.

The alternative might be to vote a 'Passive No'.

Industrial action in our case is only a buzzword for the media anyway? So does it matter if its active or passive?

To vote No against both RM and the CWU top-table and active industrial action and to simply leave 'the ball in their court' to do with as wish wthout agreement from us. To deny them legal and moral authority from us and to decline to be party to what they're going to do to us anyway?

For those who think that an agreement with RM is worth something re: job security or T's&C's, I'm not sure what it is about previous agreements, CWU oversight of them or implementaion of them allows for that belief.

The only alternative to Vote Yes or abstain (which is a tacit Yes) is Vote No.

The T's&C's and tactics of that 'No' is the only alternative we have to capitulation and I just cannot understand why or how anyone thinks that a Capitulatory Yes will buy them credibility, safety or security.

Very few jobs in the UK offer Job security and anybody voting Yes like myself are under no illusions that voting Yes will protect my Job, however voting No in the current dire economic climate may well fastrack you to the dole queue.
Most people on here are only capable of binary thinking.
To abstain isn't a tacit Yes unless the majority vote Yes, abstention just means you are happy for other people to make the decision for you.

Why does silly milly keep on about the dole Queue there are loads of jobs available ,
We have had 15 people leave this year for other jobs more will follow after the latest revisions .

There are plenty of minimum wage job's available with far worse conditions than what we are on, even after this deal is voted in.
Maybe a dose of the real World would be good for you.

Stop your silly scaremongering Milly , All the people who have left at our place have gone on to better jobs and better conditions not all of the many jobs out there are minimum wage ,

Don't believe you, have a look on Indeed and see what's available.

Not all jobs are on indeed only a fraction in fact ,
Jobs are in job centers , Advertised outside of workplaces , in the local paper , I have even seen them on lamp posts at traffic lights ,
If you are voting yes Milly fair enough but stop trying to scare everybody else in to voting yes .

I am not scaring anybody into voting Yes, it's up to the individual which way they vote.
To think I was only looking at the poorly paid on Indeed when I should have been looking on Lamp Posts for better paid jobs, I feel so foolish .

[LouBarlow]

I think you have hit on a good point though in that posties don’t know just how well they have had it up to this point. Going home hours early and receiving full pay is pretty much unheard of in other professions, yet now we are being made to work every second of the day, people are revolting. Welcome to the real world. Even if these changes come in, we are paid well for an easy job.

[milly]

I think you have hit on a good point though in that posties don’t know just how well they have had it up to this point. Going home hours early and receiving full pay is pretty much unheard of in other professions, yet now we are being made to work every second of the day, people are revolting. Welcome to the real world. Even if these changes come in, we are paid well for an easy job.

For a comparable Job I bet very few if any Jobs have paid meal reliefs, 6 months full sick pay, 6 weeks leave after 20 years, 13.6% employer Pension contribution etc.
You are right there are much worse places to work than Royal Mail.

[77SAMPOST77]

I think you have hit on a good point though in that posties don’t know just how well they have had it up to this point. Going home hours early and receiving full pay is pretty much unheard of in other professions, yet now we are being made to work every second of the day, people are revolting. Welcome to the real world. Even if these changes come in, we are paid well for an easy job.

For a comparable Job I bet very few if any Jobs have paid meal reliefs, 6 months full sick pay, 6 weeks leave after 20 years, 13.6% employer Pension contribution etc.
You are right there are much worse places to work than Royal Mail.

My answer to Lou is , it is not an easy job and we are not well paid , we have some good terms and conditions but they are being gradually eroded have you not noticed ? .
My answer to milly is , yes There are worse places to work but there are also better places to work ,
but you thing we should be grateful just because some other people have a worse job .

[milly]

I think you have hit on a good point though in that posties don’t know just how well they have had it up to this point. Going home hours early and receiving full pay is pretty much unheard of in other professions, yet now we are being made to work every second of the day, people are revolting. Welcome to the real world. Even if these changes come in, we are paid well for an easy job.

For a comparable Job I bet very few if any Jobs have paid meal reliefs, 6 months full sick pay, 6 weeks leave after 20 years, 13.6% employer Pension contribution etc.
You are right there are much worse places to work than Royal Mail.

My answer to Lou is , it is not an easy job and we are not well paid , we have some good terms and conditions but they are being gradually eroded have you not noticed ? .
My answer to milly is , yes There are worse places to work but there are also better places to work ,
but you thing we should be grateful just because some other people have a worse job .

Why don't you go out and scour the various Lamp Posts in your local area and find a better job.
According to you it's easy after the success of your former colleagues who you say have found far better jobs after leaving Royal Mail.

[77SAMPOST77]

I think you have hit on a good point though in that posties don’t know just how well they have had it up to this point. Going home hours early and receiving full pay is pretty much unheard of in other professions, yet now we are being made to work every second of the day, people are revolting. Welcome to the real world. Even if these changes come in, we are paid well for an easy job.

For a comparable Job I bet very few if any Jobs have paid meal reliefs, 6 months full sick pay, 6 weeks leave after 20 years, 13.6% employer Pension contribution etc.
You are right there are much worse places to work than Royal Mail.

My answer to Lou is , it is not an easy job and we are not well paid , we have some good terms and conditions but they are being gradually eroded have you not noticed ? .
My answer to milly is , yes There are worse places to work but there are also better places to work ,
but you thing we should be grateful just because some other people have a worse job .

Why don't you go out and scour the various Lamp Posts in your local area and find a better job.
According to you it's easy after the success of your former colleagues who you say have found far better jobs after leaving Royal Mail.

It is true and they have , as for me I retire soon so do not need to find another job .

[milly]

I think you have hit on a good point though in that posties don’t know just how well they have had it up to this point. Going home hours early and receiving full pay is pretty much unheard of in other professions, yet now we are being made to work every second of the day, people are revolting. Welcome to the real world. Even if these changes come in, we are paid well for an easy job.

For a comparable Job I bet very few if any Jobs have paid meal reliefs, 6 months full sick pay, 6 weeks leave after 20 years, 13.6% employer Pension contribution etc.
You are right there are much worse places to work than Royal Mail.

My answer to Lou is , it is not an easy job and we are not well paid , we have some good terms and conditions but they are being gradually eroded have you not noticed ? .
My answer to milly is , yes There are worse places to work but there are also better places to work ,
but you thing we should be grateful just because some other people have a worse job .

Why don't you go out and scour the various Lamp Posts in your local area and find a better job.
According to you it's easy after the success of your former colleagues who you say have found far better jobs after leaving Royal Mail.

It is true and they have , as for me I retire soon so do not need to find another job .

It's easy to act tough when you are nearly retired and don't need to find another job.
You are disingenuous to say the least.

[77SAMPOST77]

I think you have hit on a good point though in that posties don’t know just how well they have had it up to this point. Going home hours early and receiving full pay is pretty much unheard of in other professions, yet now we are being made to work every second of the day, people are revolting. Welcome to the real world. Even if these changes come in, we are paid well for an easy job.

For a comparable Job I bet very few if any Jobs have paid meal reliefs, 6 months full sick pay, 6 weeks leave after 20 years, 13.6% employer Pension contribution etc.
You are right there are much worse places to work than Royal Mail.

My answer to Lou is , it is not an easy job and we are not well paid , we have some good terms and conditions but they are being gradually eroded have you not noticed ? .
My answer to milly is , yes There are worse places to work but there are also better places to work ,
but you thing we should be grateful just because some other people have a worse job .

Why don't you go out and scour the various Lamp Posts in your local area and find a better job.
According to you it's easy after the success of your former colleagues who you say have found far better jobs after leaving Royal Mail.

It is true and they have , as for me I retire soon so do not need to find another job .

It's easy to act tough when you are nearly retired and don't need to find another job.
You are disingenuous to say the least.

Spouting nonsense again as usual milly ,
I have 2 younger family members who work for royal mail and many friends who work within royal mail and Parcelforce , I will fight for them till the bitter end , If I was still young I would still fight against this pathetic sell out deal and vote no ,
Do not presume you know me or my circumstances . It is not about acting tough it is about doing what I think is the correct thing to do and caring about people other than myself .

[milly]

I think you have hit on a good point though in that posties don’t know just how well they have had it up to this point. Going home hours early and receiving full pay is pretty much unheard of in other professions, yet now we are being made to work every second of the day, people are revolting. Welcome to the real world. Even if these changes come in, we are paid well for an easy job.

For a comparable Job I bet very few if any Jobs have paid meal reliefs, 6 months full sick pay, 6 weeks leave after 20 years, 13.6% employer Pension contribution etc.
You are right there are much worse places to work than Royal Mail.

My answer to Lou is , it is not an easy job and we are not well paid , we have some good terms and conditions but they are being gradually eroded have you not noticed ? .
My answer to milly is , yes There are worse places to work but there are also better places to work ,
but you thing we should be grateful just because some other people have a worse job .

Why don't you go out and scour the various Lamp Posts in your local area and find a better job.
According to you it's easy after the success of your former colleagues who you say have found far better jobs after leaving Royal Mail.

It is true and they have , as for me I retire soon so do not need to find another job .

It's easy to act tough when you are nearly retired and don't need to find another job.
You are disingenuous to say the least.

Spouting nonsense again as usual milly ,
I have 2 younger family members who work for royal mail and many friends who work within royal mail and Parcelforce , I will fight for them till the bitter end , If I was still young I would still fight against this pathetic sell out deal and vote no ,
Do not presume you know me or my circumstances . It is not about acting tough it is about doing what I think is the correct thing to do and caring about people other than myself .

Not nonsense at all, you have just told me you are nearly out the door so this dispute doesn't really affect you the same way it would affect someone with a young family and a mortgage.
Would you call someone in the latter situation a sell out for voting Yes?

[77SAMPOST77]

I think you have hit on a good point though in that posties don’t know just how well they have had it up to this point. Going home hours early and receiving full pay is pretty much unheard of in other professions, yet now we are being made to work every second of the day, people are revolting. Welcome to the real world. Even if these changes come in, we are paid well for an easy job.

For a comparable Job I bet very few if any Jobs have paid meal reliefs, 6 months full sick pay, 6 weeks leave after 20 years, 13.6% employer Pension contribution etc.
You are right there are much worse places to work than Royal Mail.

My answer to Lou is , it is not an easy job and we are not well paid , we have some good terms and conditions but they are being gradually eroded have you not noticed ? .
My answer to milly is , yes There are worse places to work but there are also better places to work ,
but you thing we should be grateful just because some other people have a worse job .

Why don't you go out and scour the various Lamp Posts in your local area and find a better job.
According to you it's easy after the success of your former colleagues who you say have found far better jobs after leaving Royal Mail.

It is true and they have , as for me I retire soon so do not need to find another job .

It's easy to act tough when you are nearly retired and don't need to find another job.
You are disingenuous to say the least.

Spouting nonsense again as usual milly ,
I have 2 younger family members who work for royal mail and many friends who work within royal mail and Parcelforce , I will fight for them till the bitter end , If I was still young I would still fight against this pathetic sell out deal and vote no ,
Do not presume you know me or my circumstances . It is not about acting tough it is about doing what I think is the correct thing to do and caring about people other than myself .

Not nonsense at all, you have just told me you are nearly out the door so this dispute doesn't really affect you the same way it would affect someone with a young family and a mortgage.
Would you call someone in the latter situation a sell out for voting Yes?

They and everyone else can vote however they please and I have never called you or any of royal mail staff a sell out ,
it is the actual deal put before us that I believe is a sell out ,
I care about my younger family and friends who work for royal mail so in that way it does affect me ,
But I will not scaremonger them or anyone else like you are doing milly .
You are voting yes milly and I am voting no everyone else can do as they wish .

[milly]

I'm not scaremongering, I think people are well aware of the dire economic situation.

[enskied]

The government are begging people whom have retired early, dropped out of employment for whatever reason , to return to the workforce.

Employers will have to up their game to attract them back .

Royal Mail are late to the gig economy game, it's time is almost up. And when you can pick n choose a gig economy job. Let's face it walking 10/13 miles a day pissing down or baking... You are not going to RM top of your list.

[sindba]

It's not an "easy job". It's bloody hard, that's why so many new starters leave on day 2. We have a skillset tnat not many people have.

We don't have "great terms and conditions". We have respectable t&cs that any worker deserves.