RM won't enter administration. RM is a part of IDS. RM's financial stats are terrible but they have been cross-subsidized by IDS and prior to IDS by GLS.
IDS has to ask the government's permission to put RM into a special type of administration. The government can refuse!!!
If the government won't let the USO be reduced to 5 days what makes you think they'll let IDS shed their responsibilities to fulfill the USO by placing RM in special administration? By all rational analysis - it won't happen.
The reason the CWU are supporting this pig of a deal is because they were fiercely attacked
1/ reps suspended
2/ no automatic deduction of union subs from payroll
3/ allegedly - vast reduction in amount of money paid to senior CWU when released from duties
4/ only consultative roll in work-place
The RM twisted the metaphorical arm of CWU behind its back until it was at the point of snapping - CWU have squealed "I submit" and R.M said there's a price to pay - promote this deal - and CWU leadership - stopped roaring like a lion and started bleating like meek lambs.
You raised some good points but ultimately it's speculation. Not a fact like your making it out to be. We don't know what's been going on behind the scenes.
Which parts are not facts? 1,2 and 4 are verified whereas 3/ is an unverified allegation.
When you consider the CWU's complete about-turn from drum beating "yes vote ballot wins the dispute" to "oh it's a crap deal but it's the best we can get" then you have to ask yourself what happened.
I have joined up the dots and thats the most logical conclusion - unless you assess that RM (IDS in reality) are in a terrible financial state. I don't believe that because I've dug around a bit and people who are far more adept at assessing the financial state of large organisation than ANY poster on here are saying that IDS financial state isn't maybe great but it sure as hell isn't terrible either - in fact like many other companies.
Getting the government to reduce the USO to five days would be merely a formality as the service has already declined to that level with no pushback from Ofcom, and a pretence as they have no intention of even providing a reliable five day service.
RM has already asked the government twice in the last year or so. Twice the government has said no.
RM won't enter administration. RM is a part of IDS. RM's financial stats are terrible but they have been cross-subsidized by IDS and prior to IDS by GLS.
IDS has to ask the government's permission to put RM into a special type of administration. The government can refuse!!!
If the government won't let the USO be reduced to 5 days what makes you think they'll let IDS shed their responsibilities to fulfill the USO by placing RM in special administration? By all rational analysis - it won't happen.
The reason the CWU are supporting this pig of a deal is because they were fiercely attacked
1/ reps suspended
2/ no automatic deduction of union subs from payroll
3/ allegedly - vast reduction in amount of money paid to senior CWU when released from duties
4/ only consultative roll in work-place
The RM twisted the metaphorical arm of CWU behind its back until it was at the point of snapping - CWU have squealed "I submit" and R.M said there's a price to pay - promote this deal - and CWU leadership - stopped roaring like a lion and started bleating like meek lambs.
If the vote is no what do you think RM will do? Nothing ?Re-enter negotiations? Offer a better deal? Or break up the company to hive off the profitable bits? My bet is the last option? Then there cannot be cross subsidising. Then what happens? I don't know but I'm not prepared to take the risk.
They will attempt a better offer at first - probably not very serious then impose a pay rise and bring in more revision. The revisions would fail - hell, they are failing now.
The company could be broken up - theoretically - the albatross around IDS' neck is the USO. If the USO looks like it will be seriously breached - as in more so than now obviously - then the government would likely curtail their plans for RM to stand on its own and ask them to think again - this is massively problematic for IDS - shareholders look for stability - so for IDS to go down that path is a last resort for them. Don't believe me? Then why haven't RM just broken the union and imposed 2% or even 0% this year?
RM won't enter administration. RM is a part of IDS. RM's financial stats are terrible but they have been cross-subsidized by IDS and prior to IDS by GLS.
IDS has to ask the government's permission to put RM into a special type of administration. The government can refuse!!!
If the government won't let the USO be reduced to 5 days what makes you think they'll let IDS shed their responsibilities to fulfill the USO by placing RM in special administration? By all rational analysis - it won't happen.
The reason the CWU are supporting this pig of a deal is because they were fiercely attacked
1/ reps suspended
2/ no automatic deduction of union subs from payroll
3/ allegedly - vast reduction in amount of money paid to senior CWU when released from duties
4/ only consultative roll in work-place
The RM twisted the metaphorical arm of CWU behind its back until it was at the point of snapping - CWU have squealed "I submit" and R.M said there's a price to pay - promote this deal - and CWU leadership - stopped roaring like a lion and started bleating like meek lambs.
If the vote is no what do you think RM will do? Nothing ?Re-enter negotiations? Offer a better deal? Or break up the company to hive off the profitable bits? My bet is the last option? Then there cannot be cross subsidising. Then what happens? I don't know but I'm not prepared to take the risk.
Fortunately the majority it seems (at least going by the posts on rmchat!) are prepared to take the risk? Had posties through the decades buried their heads in the sand and avoided standing up for themselves we would be in a much worse position than we are already!
Sometimes you just need to grow a pair and say no I'm not going let my bosses walk all over me!
Those platitudes are meaningless if you can't pay the bills. We are going into, or are already in a severe recession so keeping your job will be an achievement in the next few years.
I hope the willingness of some people who want to risk everything due to their narrow view of the situation aren't representative of the workforce.
This again! Just like a broken clock, eventually you'll be right and there will be a recession with massive unemployment.
Meanwhile, in the real world - Britain has printed trillions since 2008. We've had Brexit. We've had a disastrous pandemic. Yet there are still more job vacancies than takers.
Last edited by stevejm on 27 Apr 2023, 10:00, edited 1 time in total.
RM won't enter administration. RM is a part of IDS. RM's financial stats are terrible but they have been cross-subsidized by IDS and prior to IDS by GLS.
IDS has to ask the government's permission to put RM into a special type of administration. The government can refuse!!!
If the government won't let the USO be reduced to 5 days what makes you think they'll let IDS shed their responsibilities to fulfill the USO by placing RM in special administration? By all rational analysis - it won't happen.
The reason the CWU are supporting this pig of a deal is because they were fiercely attacked
1/ reps suspended
2/ no automatic deduction of union subs from payroll
3/ allegedly - vast reduction in amount of money paid to senior CWU when released from duties
4/ only consultative roll in work-place
The RM twisted the metaphorical arm of CWU behind its back until it was at the point of snapping - CWU have squealed "I submit" and R.M said there's a price to pay - promote this deal - and CWU leadership - stopped roaring like a lion and started bleating like meek lambs.
If the vote is no what do you think RM will do? Nothing ?Re-enter negotiations? Offer a better deal? Or break up the company to hive off the profitable bits? My bet is the last option? Then there cannot be cross subsidising. Then what happens? I don't know but I'm not prepared to take the risk.
They will attempt a better offer at first - probably not very serious then impose a pay rise and bring in more revision. The revisions would fail - hell, they are failing now.
The company could be broken up - theoretically - the albatross around IDS' neck is the USO. If the USO looks like it will be seriously breached - as in more so than now obviously - then the government would likely curtail their plans for RM to stand on its own and ask them to think again - this is massively problematic for IDS - shareholders look for stability - so for IDS to go down that path is a last resort for them. Don't believe me? Then why haven't RM just broken the union and imposed 2% or even 0% this year?
The Government couldn't care less about the USO, if you think that is going to save us then you are misguided.
The Government could say that Rural communities have to pay more for their Mail "cos Climate Change innit".
RM won't enter administration. RM is a part of IDS. RM's financial stats are terrible but they have been cross-subsidized by IDS and prior to IDS by GLS.
IDS has to ask the government's permission to put RM into a special type of administration. The government can refuse!!!
If the government won't let the USO be reduced to 5 days what makes you think they'll let IDS shed their responsibilities to fulfill the USO by placing RM in special administration? By all rational analysis - it won't happen.
The reason the CWU are supporting this pig of a deal is because they were fiercely attacked
1/ reps suspended
2/ no automatic deduction of union subs from payroll
3/ allegedly - vast reduction in amount of money paid to senior CWU when released from duties
4/ only consultative roll in work-place
The RM twisted the metaphorical arm of CWU behind its back until it was at the point of snapping - CWU have squealed "I submit" and R.M said there's a price to pay - promote this deal - and CWU leadership - stopped roaring like a lion and started bleating like meek lambs.
If the vote is no what do you think RM will do? Nothing ?Re-enter negotiations? Offer a better deal? Or break up the company to hive off the profitable bits? My bet is the last option? Then there cannot be cross subsidising. Then what happens? I don't know but I'm not prepared to take the risk.
Fortunately the majority it seems (at least going by the posts on rmchat!) are prepared to take the risk? Had posties through the decades buried their heads in the sand and avoided standing up for themselves we would be in a much worse position than we are already!
Sometimes you just need to grow a pair and say no I'm not going let my bosses walk all over me!
Those platitudes are meaningless if you can't pay the bills. We are going into, or are already in a severe recession so keeping your job will be an achievement in the next few years.
I hope the willingness of some people who want to risk everything due to their narrow view of the situation aren't representative of the workforce.
This again!
Britain has printed trillions since 2008. We've had Brexit. We've had a disastrous pandemic. Yet there are still more job vacancies than takers.
Loads of job vacancies because they don't pay much more than benefits, who in their right mind would come off benefits to work for minimum wage or part-time.
The Government couldn't care less about the USO, if you think that is going to save us then you are misguided.
The Government could say that Rural communities have to pay more for their Mail "cos Climate Change innit".
They could say that - but so far they have said NO.
I happen to agree that they don't care less about the USO - if they did then OFCOM would have been all over RM months ago.
So that being the case, ask yourself why they are denying RMs requests to go from 6 to 5 days
They could say that - but so far they have said NO.
I happen to agree that they don't care less about the USO - if they did then OFCOM would have been all over RM months ago.
So that being the case, ask yourself why they are denying RMs requests to go from 6 to 5 days
The USO change requests have been denied because RM first need to demonstrate that the USO is not financially viable. The end of year results will help to demonstrate that and will enable renewed calls for a reduction in the USO.
Remember, the USO is about DSA, and 1st and 2nd class letters and parcels, and special delivery. Does RMs income from USO items cover the cost of delivering them? Clearly not.
I'm pretty sure that tracked (among other products) is outside of the USO, so RM are trying to move customers over to this. Not si that the performance isn't regulated, but that can put income from such services aside from income for USO products.
On another note, RM can easily be put into special administration. Whether that happens is irrespective of IDS or GLS's financial position, because RM is a subsidiary. As unfair as it seems, if a parent company (in this case IDS) is making a fortune but has a loss making subsidiary (in this case RM), it is well within it's rights to keep the money makers and put the loss maker into administration. Sorry to burst some bubbles there, but the possibility is very real.
stevejm my predictions of a massive recession are due interest rates going up which leads to a lack of spending this now is causing a massive amount of businesses to fail.
If you think otherwise and I am a broken clock please tell me why I am wrong.
I think you need to reduce your Hopium meds!
They could say that - but so far they have said NO.
I happen to agree that they don't care less about the USO - if they did then OFCOM would have been all over RM months ago.
So that being the case, ask yourself why they are denying RMs requests to go from 6 to 5 days
The USO change requests have been denied because RM first need to demonstrate that the USO is not financially viable. The end of year results will help to demonstrate that and will enable renewed calls for a reduction in the USO.
Remember, the USO is about DSA, and 1st and 2nd class letters and parcels, and special delivery. Does RMs income from USO items cover the cost of delivering them? Clearly not.
I'm pretty sure that tracked (among other products) is outside of the USO, so RM are trying to move customers over to this. Not si that the performance isn't regulated, but that can put income from such services aside from income for USO products.
On another note, RM can easily be put into special administration. Whether that happens is irrespective of IDS or GLS's financial position, because RM is a subsidiary. As unfair as it seems, if a parent company (in this case IDS) is making a fortune but has a loss making subsidiary (in this case RM), it is well within it's rights to keep the money makers and put the loss maker into administration. Sorry to burst some bubbles there, but the possibility is very real.
First of all - thanks for your contribution. I'm all for learning through exchange of knowledge and ideas.
Your first paragraph makes a lot of sense and I guess we'll see what the e.o.y results are/if RM makes a further call for USO changes/if the gov't permits them.
I'm not so sure about "RM easily being put into special administration" - part of what makes it 'special' is that the government has to agree to it. What you are saying pertains to regular administration. But because it is special administration (due to the USO) then its not as simple as just "putting a loss making subsidiary into administration" - the government gets to make the final decision. That is my understanding from what I read in the media when 'special administration' was first raised as a possibility 2/3 months ago.
stevejm my predictions of a massive recession are due interest rates going up which leads to a lack of spending this now is causing a massive amount of businesses to fail.
If you think otherwise and I am a broken clock please tell me why I am wrong.
I think you need to reduce your Hopium meds!
Don't get me wrong. I think massive debt levels around the world will eventually have terrible consequences but governments have amazing tools at their disposal to prevent calamity also known as kicking the can down the street. If interest rates stayed up at very high levels that would happen. But as soon as inflation comes down - the target is 5% - so will interest rates. At 4-5% interest rates are not historically high, although painful for most at we got used to 1-2% rates which are unusual.
I'll reduce my hopium meds and you reduce your catastrophosis meds.
stevejm my predictions of a massive recession are due interest rates going up which leads to a lack of spending this now is causing a massive amount of businesses to fail.
If you think otherwise and I am a broken clock please tell me why I am wrong.
I think you need to reduce your Hopium meds!
Don't get me wrong. I think massive debt levels around the world will eventually have terrible consequences but governments have amazing tools at their disposal to prevent calamity also known as kicking the can down the street. If interest rates stayed up at very high levels that would happen. But as soon as inflation comes down - the target is 5% - so will interest rates. At 4-5% interest rates are not historically high, although painful for most at we got used to 1-2% rates which are unusual.
I'll reduce my hopium meds and you reduce your catastrophosis meds.
We are borrowing over £20 Billion a month currently.
When businesses fail and people are put out of work, where does the Government find the lost Tax revenue?
Printy,Printy more inflation!
Interest rates aren't historically high however debt levels are the largest they have ever been, so for many people interest rates of 5% mean it's game over.
Last edited by milly on 27 Apr 2023, 12:58, edited 1 time in total.
They could say that - but so far they have said NO.
I happen to agree that they don't care less about the USO - if they did then OFCOM would have been all over RM months ago.
So that being the case, ask yourself why they are denying RMs requests to go from 6 to 5 days
The USO change requests have been denied because RM first need to demonstrate that the USO is not financially viable. The end of year results will help to demonstrate that and will enable renewed calls for a reduction in the USO.
Remember, the USO is about DSA, and 1st and 2nd class letters and parcels, and special delivery. Does RMs income from USO items cover the cost of delivering them? Clearly not.
I'm pretty sure that tracked (among other products) is outside of the USO, so RM are trying to move customers over to this. Not si that the performance isn't regulated, but that can put income from such services aside from income for USO products.
On another note, RM can easily be put into special administration. Whether that happens is irrespective of IDS or GLS's financial position, because RM is a subsidiary. As unfair as it seems, if a parent company (in this case IDS) is making a fortune but has a loss making subsidiary (in this case RM), it is well within it's rights to keep the money makers and put the loss maker into administration. Sorry to burst some bubbles there, but the possibility is very real.
First of all - thanks for your contribution. I'm all for learning through exchange of knowledge and ideas.
Your first paragraph makes a lot of sense and I guess we'll see what the e.o.y results are/if RM makes a further call for USO changes/if the gov't permits them.
I'm not so sure about "RM easily being put into special administration" - part of what makes it 'special' is that the government has to agree to it. What you are saying pertains to regular administration. But because it is special administration (due to the USO) then its not as simple as just "putting a loss making subsidiary into administration" - the government gets to make the final decision. That is my understanding from what I read in the media when 'special administration' was first raised as a possibility 2/3 months ago.
The government will be keeping in mind that if things get bad enough and RM were to be allowed to stop delivering letters, their constituents would have to pay whatever the going rate is to send each letter they want to send via a courier, I'm guessing that'll be around £4-5
RM won't enter administration. RM is a part of IDS. RM's financial stats are terrible but they have been cross-subsidized by IDS and prior to IDS by GLS.
IDS has to ask the government's permission to put RM into a special type of administration. The government can refuse!!!
If the government won't let the USO be reduced to 5 days what makes you think they'll let IDS shed their responsibilities to fulfill the USO by placing RM in special administration? By all rational analysis - it won't happen.
The reason the CWU are supporting this pig of a deal is because they were fiercely attacked
1/ reps suspended
2/ no automatic deduction of union subs from payroll
3/ allegedly - vast reduction in amount of money paid to senior CWU when released from duties
4/ only consultative roll in work-place
The RM twisted the metaphorical arm of CWU behind its back until it was at the point of snapping - CWU have squealed "I submit" and R.M said there's a price to pay - promote this deal - and CWU leadership - stopped roaring like a lion and started bleating like meek lambs.
You raised some good points but ultimately it's speculation. Not a fact like your making it out to be. We don't know what's been going on behind the scenes.
Which parts are not facts? 1,2 and 4 are verified whereas 3/ is an unverified allegation.
When you consider the CWU's complete about-turn from drum beating "yes vote ballot wins the dispute" to "oh it's a crap deal but it's the best we can get" then you have to ask yourself what happened.
I have joined up the dots and thats the most logical conclusion - unless you assess that RM (IDS in reality) are in a terrible financial state. I don't believe that because I've dug around a bit and people who are far more adept at assessing the financial state of large organisation than ANY poster on here are saying that IDS financial state isn't maybe great but it sure as hell isn't terrible either - in fact like many other companies.
Your whole premise was RM won't enter administration. You don't know that for certain. You put up a rational assessment of the situation but as I said before, we don't know the details.
Let's say they did try to enter administration & failed. The threat of compulsory redundancies would still be on the cards. So you could have been right about them failing the administration, we will never know.
The picture people are painting of the union is ridiculous imo. They know they need to keep us happy to get their money. Giving us a crap deal isn't in their best interests. Seems like they exhausted the talks & tried their best. Maybe I'm wrong & they took a under the table payment as some conspiracy theorists are here suggest.
Remember, the USO is about DSA, and 1st and 2nd class letters and parcels, and special delivery. Does RMs income from USO items cover the cost of delivering them? Clearly not.
Speaking of DSA, presumably UKMail and Whistl are waiting in the wings to ensure continuity of service if RM goes under No, seriously. Surely The """Delivery""" Group is on the starting blocs.
No, seriously. Surely The """Delivery""" Group is on the starting blocs.