FAO Martin Walsh !!!

[11aaa222]

First of all I would like to thank you Martin for your update.

It is at least you that keeps us updated, and for this we are grateful as sometimes it is just good to have that open line of communication.

Just a couple of points and a response and reply by you on the points raised would be good.

The union have made mistakes along the way no doubt about it in my mind.

• why oh why did the union this time last year promise a no strings inflation busting pay rise, this was never ever realistic and was never going to happen anyone and everyone could see that yet the union insisted and persisted with this unrealistic goal, no wonder over a year later this is unresolved. Now finally the cwu realize that no strings deal is not possible

• 2 weeks ago CWU said a deal would be done in 10 days, how unrealistic was that, at the time I did think that no chance! but prepared to give it a chance, why set and state a deadline of 10 days and to raise expectations only to dash them?

• • the cost of living is really biting now, just get the pay rise done and dusted and in our pockets! and you can carry on talking for the next decade for me!, as I agree with the Royal Mail in that we spend far too long in talking about change rather than doing it and lets face it they are doing what they want for that most part locally anyway and just paying local reps the lip service.I think it would benefit us all and if these new changes do not suit people well they can go and look for a better / more suitable job anyway as there are plenty of jobs out there so they say

• the job is not what it was FACT, and the business is changing FACT! - so lets just get it over and done with instead of prolonging the dispute

• if the cwu were realy determined to get the deal done in 10 days why not just announce the 14 day notice for strike action at the same time as '10 day' announcement, as this would have really focused minds of the board just to get the deal done, knowing what would be coming round the corner if a deal was not done - Royal Mail really missed a trick there

• however still not too late end of financial year approaching and Easter hand in the 2 weeks notice of I/A now!!!! to really focus minds

• I know the cwu are really doing the best they can for us, but I feel they have made a lot of errors along the way, as some things are unrealistic - the cwu bang on about 2 tier workforce, but it already exists!, people being paid working alongside me that and doing the same jobs, and getting paid nearly £200 a month more - colleague is getting ex phg supplement, pbs/ics payment, and extra shift pay as he is ex phg with the full shift allowance pensionable and mine is not!. I wish the CWU would ope their eyes 3 teirs have applied for years anddecades and continue to apply to this date. I wish the CWU would open their eyes. Either equalise for the whole workforce as it stand s now or accept a 2 teir workforce that RM propose which the cwu inadvertently have accepted any how for the last decades

• I don't see anything wrong with commit to deliver as long as workloads are acceptable! why should you not be expected to do your fair share of work, I know for a fact there are piss takers and that cannot be right, lets give the customers the service they deserve!! and as for flexi hours it can work both ways you know as long as it is implemented correctly with right oversight from the CWU nothing wrong with this at all, I have worked at another company and flexi hours in the past and annualised hours and it can be of benefit to the workers too!

Let me know your thought martin wlash

[scotchy1962]

First of all I would like to thank you Martin for your update.

It is at least you that keeps us updated, and for this we are grateful as sometimes it is just good to have that open line of communication.

Just a couple of points and a response and reply by you on the points raised would be good.

The union have made mistakes along the way no doubt about it in my mind.

• why oh why did the union this time last year promise a no strings inflation busting pay rise, this was never ever realistic and was never going to happen anyone and everyone could see that yet the union insisted and persisted with this unrealistic goal, no wonder over a year later this is unresolved. Now finally the cwu realize that no strings deal is not possible

• 2 weeks ago CWU said a deal would be done in 10 days, how unrealistic was that, at the time I did think that no chance! but prepared to give it a chance, why set and state a deadline of 10 days and to raise expectations only to dash them?

• • the cost of living is really biting now, just get the pay rise done and dusted and in our pockets! and you can carry on talking for the next decade for me!, as I agree with the Royal Mail in that we spend far too long in talking about change rather than doing it and lets face it they are doing what they want for that most part locally anyway and just paying local reps the lip service.I think it would benefit us all and if these new changes do not suit people well they can go and look for a better / more suitable job anyway as there are plenty of jobs out there so they say

• the job is not what it was FACT, and the business is changing FACT! - so lets just get it over and done with instead of prolonging the dispute

• if the cwu were realy determined to get the deal done in 10 days why not just announce the 14 day notice for strike action at the same time as '10 day' announcement, as this would have really focused minds of the board just to get the deal done, knowing what would be coming round the corner if a deal was not done - Royal Mail really missed a trick there

• however still not too late end of financial year approaching and Easter hand in the 2 weeks notice of I/A now!!!! to really focus minds

• I know the cwu are really doing the best they can for us, but I feel they have made a lot of errors along the way, as some things are unrealistic - the cwu bang on about 2 tier workforce, but it already exists!, people being paid working alongside me that and doing the same jobs, and getting paid nearly £200 a month more - colleague is getting ex phg supplement, pbs/ics payment, and extra shift pay as he is ex phg with the full shift allowance pensionable and mine is not!. I wish the CWU would ope their eyes 3 teirs have applied for years anddecades and continue to apply to this date. I wish the CWU would open their eyes. Either equalise for the whole workforce as it stand s now or accept a 2 teir workforce that RM propose which the cwu inadvertently have accepted any how for the last decades

• I don't see anything wrong with commit to deliver as long as workloads are acceptable! why should you not be expected to do your fair share of work, I know for a fact there are piss takers and that cannot be right, lets give the customers the service they deserve!! and as for flexi hours it can work both ways you know as long as it is implemented correctly with right oversight from the CWU nothing wrong with this at all, I have worked at another company and flexi hours in the past and annualised hours and it can be of benefit to the workers too!

Let me know your thought martin wlash

Ahhh the voice of reason at last, but wait oh no its another union bashing post in disguise. Christ almighty and the little baby jesus wtf is wrong with some people, it wouldnt matter what the union said you cant help yourself. I suppose that RM have behaved impeccably and havent been lying at all to the workforce, shareholders and the country for that matter, so what makes you think anything they are saying in anyway resembles the truth. Wait until they get some sort of offer and then vote whichever way you want. Everything else you have written is just RM propaganda B*ll S**T wrapped up to look like you are a postie. Commit to deliver and annualised hours my arse, nobody sane is interested in that. But if that is what you really believe good luck to you.

[11aaa222]

i will correct you:

"

it wouldnt matter what the union said you cant help yourself"

It actually does matter what the union said!!! - as they represent us!!

• "I suppose that RM have behaved impeccably and havent been lying at all to the workforce, shareholders and the country for that matter, so what makes you think anything they are saying in anyway resembles the truth."

I did not make comment to the point where I say RM are telling the truth, and anything they say resemble the truth, in my mind that is another issue as the point I make is that the CWU represent us and RM do not - RM will say and do as they see fit, however it is the unions job to look after our interests

• "Everything else you have written is just RM propaganda B*ll S**T wrapped up to look like you are a postie."

Completely false

• "Commit to deliver and annualised hours my arse, nobody sane is interested in that. But if that is what you really believe good luck to you."

you say nobody is intrested in that - but it will save daily arguments and debates with regards to lapsing etc, you just deliver your route without any argument - simples! like I say though key here is a reasonable worload and your in charge and commited to deliver a reasonable walk and delivery span with everything equalized, and if you go over slightly on busier days so be it it gets taken off your annual hours and you could end up in credit of hours extra a/l or payment depending and if you sre in defecit come end of year no deductions of pay or leave but your walk obvisuly needs to be reviewd as its not a proportiante delivery span as compared to your colleagues

It all is about what is fair with the right oversight and governance which the union should be involved in

[FirstPost]

Martin will spout the usual crap that the union push

[hans solo]

Correct the only time he comes on is to push the shite the CWU have to compromise on
Which will mean a deal is nearly there but it will be the next deal of the century
Martin let out to soften the blow and prepare you for accepting the destruction of the workforce t&cs yet again

[worktotime]

i will correct you:

"

it wouldnt matter what the union said you cant help yourself"

It actually does matter what the union said!!! - as they represent us!!

• "I suppose that RM have behaved impeccably and havent been lying at all to the workforce, shareholders and the country for that matter, so what makes you think anything they are saying in anyway resembles the truth."

I did not make comment to the point where I say RM are telling the truth, and anything they say resemble the truth, in my mind that is another issue as the point I make is that the CWU represent us and RM do not - RM will say and do as they see fit, however it is the unions job to look after our interests

• "Everything else you have written is just RM propaganda B*ll S**T wrapped up to look like you are a postie."

Completely false

• "Commit to deliver and annualised hours my arse, nobody sane is interested in that. But if that is what you really believe good luck to you."

you say nobody is intrested in that - but it will save daily arguments and debates with regards to lapsing etc, you just deliver your route without any argument - simples! like I say though key here is a reasonable worload and your in charge and commited to deliver a reasonable walk and delivery span with everything equalized, and if you go over slightly on busier days so be it it gets taken off your annual hours and you could end up in credit of hours extra a/l or payment depending and if you sre in defecit come end of year no deductions of pay or leave but your walk obvisuly needs to be reviewd as its not a proportiante delivery span as compared to your colleagues

It all is about what is fair with the right oversight and governance which the union should be involved in

if commit to deliver was agreed it would allow managers to increase deliverys to what ever size they would like which would remove more duties out of offices which would mean job cuts , just look at the state of delivery offices now with there unagreed revisions and to be blunt there a f***ing mess with mail , parcels failing uso , failing quality of service , never mind what it is doing to the staff mentally and physically , and that includes the office i work in as well .

[SMS1969]

Commit to deliver- no thanks. Managers completely in control which they would love to be. I want a finish time, so that I can arrange other things going on in my life. I also do not want to be going in to work in the heavier months not knowing when I’m going to finish.

[scotchy1962]

i will correct you:

"

it wouldnt matter what the union said you cant help yourself"

It actually does matter what the union said!!! - as they represent us!!

• "I suppose that RM have behaved impeccably and havent been lying at all to the workforce, shareholders and the country for that matter, so what makes you think anything they are saying in anyway resembles the truth."

I did not make comment to the point where I say RM are telling the truth, and anything they say resemble the truth, in my mind that is another issue as the point I make is that the CWU represent us and RM do not - RM will say and do as they see fit, however it is the unions job to look after our interests

• "Everything else you have written is just RM propaganda B*ll S**T wrapped up to look like you are a postie."

Completely false

• "Commit to deliver and annualised hours my arse, nobody sane is interested in that. But if that is what you really believe good luck to you."

you say nobody is intrested in that - but it will save daily arguments and debates with regards to lapsing etc, you just deliver your route without any argument - simples! like I say though key here is a reasonable worload and your in charge and commited to deliver a reasonable walk and delivery span with everything equalized, and if you go over slightly on busier days so be it it gets taken off your annual hours and you could end up in credit of hours extra a/l or payment depending and if you sre in defecit come end of year no deductions of pay or leave but your walk obvisuly needs to be reviewd as its not a proportiante delivery span as compared to your colleagues

It all is about what is fair with the right oversight and governance which the union should be involved in

Lovely bit of correction from you, "the union represent us" you say, theres no agreement in front of you to criticise the union on just the fact they are talking to RM seems to be enough to start sobbing on here. Wait until theres something to criticise before you criticise. And yes nobody and i mean nobody but simple slyman himself is interested in commit to deliver and annualised hours. Everything you have written looks like and smells like what i said in the first place and you know the old saying "If it looks like it and smells like it......." i am sure you are intelligent enough to finish it yourself.

[Boltonian-White]

First of all I would like to thank you Martin for your update.

It is at least you that keeps us updated, and for this we are grateful as sometimes it is just good to have that open line of communication.

Just a couple of points and a response and reply by you on the points raised would be good.

The union have made mistakes along the way no doubt about it in my mind.

• why oh why did the union this time last year promise a no strings inflation busting pay rise, this was never ever realistic and was never going to happen anyone and everyone could see that yet the union insisted and persisted with this unrealistic goal, no wonder over a year later this is unresolved. Now finally the cwu realize that no strings deal is not possible

• 2 weeks ago CWU said a deal would be done in 10 days, how unrealistic was that, at the time I did think that no chance! but prepared to give it a chance, why set and state a deadline of 10 days and to raise expectations only to dash them?

• • the cost of living is really biting now, just get the pay rise done and dusted and in our pockets! and you can carry on talking for the next decade for me!, as I agree with the Royal Mail in that we spend far too long in talking about change rather than doing it and lets face it they are doing what they want for that most part locally anyway and just paying local reps the lip service.I think it would benefit us all and if these new changes do not suit people well they can go and look for a better / more suitable job anyway as there are plenty of jobs out there so they say

• the job is not what it was FACT, and the business is changing FACT! - so lets just get it over and done with instead of prolonging the dispute

• if the cwu were realy determined to get the deal done in 10 days why not just announce the 14 day notice for strike action at the same time as '10 day' announcement, as this would have really focused minds of the board just to get the deal done, knowing what would be coming round the corner if a deal was not done - Royal Mail really missed a trick there

• however still not too late end of financial year approaching and Easter hand in the 2 weeks notice of I/A now!!!! to really focus minds

• I know the cwu are really doing the best they can for us, but I feel they have made a lot of errors along the way, as some things are unrealistic - the cwu bang on about 2 tier workforce, but it already exists!, people being paid working alongside me that and doing the same jobs, and getting paid nearly £200 a month more - colleague is getting ex phg supplement, pbs/ics payment, and extra shift pay as he is ex phg with the full shift allowance pensionable and mine is not!. I wish the CWU would ope their eyes 3 teirs have applied for years anddecades and continue to apply to this date. I wish the CWU would open their eyes. Either equalise for the whole workforce as it stand s now or accept a 2 teir workforce that RM propose which the cwu inadvertently have accepted any how for the last decades

• I don't see anything wrong with commit to deliver as long as workloads are acceptable! why should you not be expected to do your fair share of work, I know for a fact there are piss takers and that cannot be right, lets give the customers the service they deserve!! and as for flexi hours it can work both ways you know as long as it is implemented correctly with right oversight from the CWU nothing wrong with this at all, I have worked at another company and flexi hours in the past and annualised hours and it can be of benefit to the workers too!

Let me know your thought martin wlash

You have no problem with commit to deliver?

Then you're never been on a busy delivery. Simple

A delivery that can take between 5 and 6 hours normally can quite easily turn into 7+ at a busy time of year.

With automation indoor work will likely turn into outdoor work in future. Couple that with later starts, first letter at 11.30am and last letter at well past 6.30pm. Try working in the dark for 2 to 3 hours out on a rural delivery. Not fun. Bloody dangerous

You're clueless mate, so as others have said, this smells like you've either not been in the job long or have never actually done the job.

[stevejm]

"Commit to deliver and annualised hours my arse, nobody sane is interested in that. But if that is what you really believe good luck to you."

you say nobody is intrested in that - but it will save daily arguments and debates with regards to lapsing etc, you just deliver your route without any argument - simples! like I say though key here is a reasonable worload and your in charge and commited to deliver a reasonable walk and delivery span with everything equalized, and if you go over slightly on busier days so be it it gets taken off your annual hours and you could end up in credit of hours extra a/l or payment depending and if you sre in defecit come end of year no deductions of pay or leave but your walk obvisuly needs to be reviewd as its not a proportiante delivery span as compared to your colleagues

It all is about what is fair with the right oversight and governance which the union should be involved in

There would be many more daily arguments about how long a workload should take to deliver.

You have acknowledged that R.M has lied during the dispute, that they have been unfair. But suddenly a magic wand will be waved and from now on RM will always be nice and fair and make sure that they don't abuse an agreement which leaves posties over a barrel ready to be abused. You are very naive.

[11aaa222]

No wonder we are in the mess we are as a company.

People are just so unwilling to change! and do not listen or actually read what I have just said.

with regards to:

There would be many more daily arguments about how long a workload should take to deliver.


No not really as it is not a workload thing as such. You commit to deliver your walk and not 'extra' workload. Your walk is yours simple, not difficult is it?

And I did say - It all is about what is fair with the right oversight and governance which the union should be involved in, of course it needs to be a fair and manageable workload.

How would you feel as a customer if you were waiting at home for DPD or amazon to deliver something you ordered and you simply wait wait and wait and then the item does not come as the delivery driver decides to cut off??? - as a customer you would not accept it. and pehaps even raise a complaint.

Yet somehow the fact RM postmen are doing this very thing on a daily basis - cutting off as an employee you find acceptable. I call it quite hypocritical tbh. I don't see provided it is a fair and manageable workload why commit to deliver is such a big deal at all if your done early you go, it is all about haveing the right governance and oversight, as of course if you are going over everyday on your commit to deliver the walk is quite obviously too big.

Like I said fair reasonable and manageable. And I know of DO's and walks that do regulalry finish 30 mins a day early which is all well and good I'm alrite Jack but how is that fair on a person who is going over everyday.

With commit to deliver it is all about fairness as if you fininsh early and go early the hours would reflect accordingly at year end - not pay but hours so you would not be paid less but carry the negative hours over into next year. And same goes for people going over hours would reflect and trigger extra payment of holidays

Perhaps I am naive!!! and it would never work due to custom and practice and the work place culture - but something needs to change as all it is everyday is daily arguments about lapsing and cutting off etc

But maybe I am naive but other certainly are as there are companies I know where there is such thing as compulsary overtime,

It is all about trying to find find the right balalnce and have the governance in place to enable it all to happen, as things as they are cannot conitnue

[11aaa222]

i will correct you:

"

it wouldnt matter what the union said you cant help yourself"

It actually does matter what the union said!!! - as they represent us!!

• "I suppose that RM have behaved impeccably and havent been lying at all to the workforce, shareholders and the country for that matter, so what makes you think anything they are saying in anyway resembles the truth."

I did not make comment to the point where I say RM are telling the truth, and anything they say resemble the truth, in my mind that is another issue as the point I make is that the CWU represent us and RM do not - RM will say and do as they see fit, however it is the unions job to look after our interests

• "Everything else you have written is just RM propaganda B*ll S**T wrapped up to look like you are a postie."

Completely false

• "Commit to deliver and annualised hours my arse, nobody sane is interested in that. But if that is what you really believe good luck to you."

you say nobody is intrested in that - but it will save daily arguments and debates with regards to lapsing etc, you just deliver your route without any argument - simples! like I say though key here is a reasonable worload and your in charge and commited to deliver a reasonable walk and delivery span with everything equalized, and if you go over slightly on busier days so be it it gets taken off your annual hours and you could end up in credit of hours extra a/l or payment depending and if you sre in defecit come end of year no deductions of pay or leave but your walk obvisuly needs to be reviewd as its not a proportiante delivery span as compared to your colleagues

It all is about what is fair with the right oversight and governance which the union should be involved in

Lovely bit of correction from you, "the union represent us" you say, theres no agreement in front of you to criticise the union on just the fact they are talking to RM seems to be enough to start sobbing on here. Wait until theres something to criticise before you criticise. And yes nobody and i mean nobody but simple slyman himself is interested in commit to deliver and annualised hours. Everything you have written looks like and smells like what i said in the first place and you know the old saying "If it looks like it and smells like it......." i am sure you are intelligent enough to finish it yourself.

Exactly I am not ctitical of the agremmant as there is none. This is what I am critical of as it was told to us 10 days however unlikley that was.

I am critical of lack of communication and the broken promises ie no strings pay rise that was promised that is what stinks and no cwu have gone full circle and said that this is not doable. but they had he strike mandate for no strings pay rise what ever happened to that??? out of the window thats what.

RM is weaker now than where ot was going into the strike so really strikes have done the damage not all but I can certainly see where I work that the volume of work is simply not there.

And the fact you or the CWU do not recognise there is already a 2 teir workforce is an issue as there has been for decades, if union really beleive in pay parity lets equalize everyone's pay don't just pick and choose, like I said how is it fair colleague is getting over £2000 a year more than I am for doing the same job... it is not fair!

now what we need is a notice of strike for at least 48 hours and that is what will focus minds to get a deal, we need a deal in whatever shape or form to get the pay rise and then talk can carry on for the next year I'm not bothered but we do need the pay to come through as all daily expenses have gone up

[scotchy1962]

i will correct you:

"

it wouldnt matter what the union said you cant help yourself"

It actually does matter what the union said!!! - as they represent us!!

• "I suppose that RM have behaved impeccably and havent been lying at all to the workforce, shareholders and the country for that matter, so what makes you think anything they are saying in anyway resembles the truth."

I did not make comment to the point where I say RM are telling the truth, and anything they say resemble the truth, in my mind that is another issue as the point I make is that the CWU represent us and RM do not - RM will say and do as they see fit, however it is the unions job to look after our interests

• "Everything else you have written is just RM propaganda B*ll S**T wrapped up to look like you are a postie."

Completely false

• "Commit to deliver and annualised hours my arse, nobody sane is interested in that. But if that is what you really believe good luck to you."

you say nobody is intrested in that - but it will save daily arguments and debates with regards to lapsing etc, you just deliver your route without any argument - simples! like I say though key here is a reasonable worload and your in charge and commited to deliver a reasonable walk and delivery span with everything equalized, and if you go over slightly on busier days so be it it gets taken off your annual hours and you could end up in credit of hours extra a/l or payment depending and if you sre in defecit come end of year no deductions of pay or leave but your walk obvisuly needs to be reviewd as its not a proportiante delivery span as compared to your colleagues

It all is about what is fair with the right oversight and governance which the union should be involved in

Lovely bit of correction from you, "the union represent us" you say, theres no agreement in front of you to criticise the union on just the fact they are talking to RM seems to be enough to start sobbing on here. Wait until theres something to criticise before you criticise. And yes nobody and i mean nobody but simple slyman himself is interested in commit to deliver and annualised hours. Everything you have written looks like and smells like what i said in the first place and you know the old saying "If it looks like it and smells like it......." i am sure you are intelligent enough to finish it yourself.

Exactly I am not ctitical of the agremmant as there is none. This is what I am critical of as it was told to us 10 days however unlikley that was.

I am critical of lack of communication and the broken promises ie no strings pay rise that was promised that is what stinks and no cwu have gone full circle and said that this is not doable. but they had he strike mandate for no strings pay rise what ever happened to that??? out of the window thats what.

RM is weaker now than where ot was going into the strike so really strikes have done the damage not all but I can certainly see where I work that the volume of work is simply not there.

And the fact you or the CWU do not recognise there is already a 2 teir workforce is an issue as there has been for decades, if union really beleive in pay parity lets equalize everyone's pay don't just pick and choose, like I said how is it fair colleague is getting over £2000 a year more than I am for doing the same job... it is not fair!

now what we need is a notice of strike for at least 48 hours and that is what will focus minds to get a deal, we need a deal in whatever shape or form to get the pay rise and then talk can carry on for the next year I'm not bothered but we do need the pay to come through as all daily expenses have gone up

Aww man give it up. You admit theres no agreement to disagree with. But because they dont come on and tell you theres no agreement you disagree with that instead. You are focusing a lot of your energy on what your workmates are getting instead of worrying about your own pay packet. Now you want a strike for 48hrs. Make your mind up would you!! Look we are where we are and until theres something solid to discuss whats the point in speculation it only gets peoples and my back up. Pointless drivel at the moment.

[clashcityrocker]

Commit to deliver wouldn't be a problem for these posties.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wygWpWzMTOE

[postieblueshirt]

You will not get royal mail to agree the payrise on its own without the strings they want to attach.