So what exactly does the joint statement mean?

[Navalron]

A few observations from the Posts.

1. If we were not in dispute and the Pathway to Change Agreement was still in place that agreement committed every unit to a revision this year and next based on improving local productivity.

2. There has been traffic loss. Royal Mail’s revision targets are based on minus 7% but that is now over 10% in most units on even parcels streams.

3. How anyone does not see the significance of Simon Thompson the CEO being replaced in the talks and he had been in the majority of meetings since the new year is beyond me. Think about it the CEO being removed from the talks and two non executive board members who don’t work for Royal Mail replace him. One is a Lawyer and the other works for TFL. How does that strengthen the CEO’s hand ? ?

4. Of course it is Royal Mails mismanagement which has caused the financial crisis. However the seriousness of it is undeniable. Remember there are announcements which impact the share price and therefore the seriousness of the situation for many is just a tool to criticise.

5. The CWU are determined to get an agreement which is acceptable to the members. This means on pay and change.

6. On later starts due to Royal Mail coming off planes. There would always have been a move on start times as that work which is part of the USO has to now come by rail or road. However we do not agree with the three buckets which Royal Mail have provided where 700 units have a later start of over an hour. This is part of the negotiation.

7. We are not going to agree annualised hours which is total flexibility. However we are in discussions over seasonal variations. We all know for 12 weeks in the summer traffic reduces and absorption increases. Why ? productivity is simply if you have less traffic then you need less hours but the vast majority of units have the same number of duties 52 weeks per year. So the discussions are about individuals knowing what hours they will be working a year ahead.

8. We have achieved a number of concessions :

A) Sundays to be voluntary
B) Sunday allowances to be retained on a reserve rights basis.
C) A commitment on no compulsory redundancies which is not time limited.
D) RRIS to remain on a reserve rights basis.
E) TPM to remain on a reserve rights basis.
F) ILL Health Retirement to remain unchanged.

So all your new staff can go fxxk themselves. They are part of the future union and why would they even bother to have anything to do with a union that shat on them. Bye the way do you really think RM are going to change all the new posties hired in the last few months, contracts so that they get delivery supplement, rris, tpm ect ect. They get a basic pay of £11.59 with zero allowances.The living wage goes up next month. And that £11.59 is not much more. People are not going burst their arse for that. Hell,they can hardly keep the staff they have got. I hope you get a good deal. For the union's future, you better.

[roman]

Martin can we have the pay rise backdated to last April at least ?

[Schiff]

5. The CWU are determined to get an agreement which is acceptable to the members. This means on pay and change.

6. On later starts due to Royal Mail coming off planes. There would always have been a move on start times as that work which is part of the USO has to now come by rail or road. However we do not agree with the three buckets which Royal Mail have provided where 700 units have a later start of over an hour. This is part of the negotiation.

7. We are not going to agree annualised hours which is total flexibility. However we are in discussions over seasonal variations. We all know for 12 weeks in the summer traffic reduces and absorption increases. Why ? productivity is simply if you have less traffic then you need less hours but the vast majority of units have the same number of duties 52 weeks per year. So the discussions are about individuals knowing what hours they will be working a year ahead.

I think that you have contradicted yourself. As far as I can see, seasonal variations are simply annualised hours renamed. Good luck trying to get members to vote for any deal with "seasonal variations" included. I won't be voting for it.

The work has always had seasonal variations. We staff the depot at a level to cope with the quieter times then in the busier christmas period offer overtime for those who want it, restrict leave and employ casual workers. There is no need for any change to that.

Yes RM are losing money. The whole point of strikes is to make them lose huge amounts of money so that they are persuaded to concede to our demands. If they are losing money on letters then they need to significantly increase their prices. Guess what. They are doing that. There is absolutely no reason at all for their employees to take a real terms pay cut. Again, I won't be voting for any proposal that includes that pay cut.

The members are not going to vote for the kind of lousy deal that it appears that we are heading towards. We have just instructed you by a huge margin to organise further strike action if RM don't give us what we want. It is clear that talks aren't moving towards an acceptable deal so get the strike dates announced now in accordance with the ballot.

[Acca Dacca]

Work outside less in the summer when the weather is bright and pleasant in order to work outside more in the winter when the weather is dark, cold and wet

What a deal

[Woody Guthrie]

The members are not going to vote for the kind of lousy deal that it appears that we are heading towards.

I'll take that bet.
What odds are you giving?

[k979aaa]

Martin can we have the pay rise backdated to last April at least ?

Thing with back pay is your just paying a lot of tax and it does not flow into a pension increases also it is less cumulative going forward ie say some postman gets 300 and gets 2% imposed and then his union and himself gets 5% with back pay
so 300 + 2% is 306
and 300 + 5% is 315
now going on the non back pay he gets say 7% because they don't pay the costs of backdating so more in the pot going forward.
so 300 + 7% is 321
but is 321 more than 315?
but going forward say we get 3%
well 315 will be 324.45
and 321 is 330.63
well is it worth it some yes most no don't forget the final salary is what most pension schemes work on!

[clashcityrocker]

but is 321 more than 315?

Boris, is that you?

[k979aaa]

but is 321 more than 315?

Boris, is that you?

Nice but look at the whole post think you would agree that most would have more money going forward than backpay as your just spaffing money up the wall in tax!

[citypostie]

I'm glad annualised hours won't be agreed to and funnily enough I've been saying that some form of longs and shorts on steroids would be the compromise, so some weeks a year with less hours and maybe November/December with more. But after these revisions have been brought in will there be scope to work shorter hours during the summer months? Our revision is already in and even during the quietest time for mail I can remember in 28 years there's no way we'd complete if we was working an hour less a day and didn't want to do overtime. I'm assuming the union won't try and get us to accept any deal that includes a commit to deliver clause?

[k979aaa]

I'm glad annualised hours won't be agreed to and funnily enough I've been saying that some form of longs and shorts on steroids would be the compromise, so some weeks a year with less hours and maybe November/December with more. But after these revisions have been brought in will there be scope to work shorter hours during the summer months? Our revision is already in and even during the quietest time for mail I can remember in 28 years there's no way we'd complete if we was working an hour less a day and didn't want to do overtime. I'm assuming the union won't try and get us to accept any deal that includes a commit to deliver clause?

Thing is most people want leave in the summer and most cannot get the leave they want so more lapsing in the summer will mean less leave slots so I think they need to think more about this!

[clashcityrocker]

The increase in efficiency can come from indoor workload or outdoor workload.

Increasing indoor efficiency either means a longer outdoor span or a reduction in full time opportunities.
Are we throwing the part timers under a car derived van again?
The joint statement makes no mention of maximising full time contracts where possible, as the Agenda for Growth did (even if it was largely ignored)

Discussions will take place locally on reasonable earnings opportunities for existing employees

I am happy to be contradicted but that statement basically means more docket for the full time staff and less opportunities of gaining full time employment for part time staff.

[citypostie]

The increase in efficiency can come from indoor workload or outdoor workload.

Increasing indoor efficiency either means a longer outdoor span or a reduction in full time opportunities.
Are we throwing the part timers under a car derived van again?
The joint statement makes no mention of maximising full time contracts where possible, as the Agenda for Growth did (even if it was largely ignored)

Discussions will take place locally on reasonable earnings opportunities for existing employees

I am happy to be contradicted but that statement basically means more docket for the full time staff and less opportunities of gaining full time employment for part time staff.

In my office only ia couple of full timers do any overtime it's the part timers who do it all

[Acca Dacca]

I'm glad annualised hours won't be agreed to and funnily enough I've been saying that some form of longs and shorts on steroids would be the compromise, so some weeks a year with less hours and maybe November/December with more. But after these revisions have been brought in will there be scope to work shorter hours during the summer months? Our revision is already in and even during the quietest time for mail I can remember in 28 years there's no way we'd complete if we was working an hour less a day and didn't want to do overtime. I'm assuming the union won't try and get us to accept any deal that includes a commit to deliver clause?

Thing is most people want leave in the summer and most cannot get the leave they want so more lapsing in the summer will mean less leave slots so I think they need to think more about this!

Lapsing is supposed to free up leave slots

The people who usually cover the duties that get lapsed are available to cover other duties ( people on leave if those on lapsed dutires have not taken leave themselves )

Seasonal variation would mean less cover in the summer ( as less duties would be lapsed in practice as it would be shorter days ) so less opportunity for extra leave slots

[chrisj]

If we are going to get exactly the same pay deal as was offered at start of October, then a no back pay is a loss of money - on top of the loss in wages through strikes.

For those that do overtime, it is even a bigger loss... Going forwards, there will be less overtime; so that money is gone.

We might get more going forwards but the CWU put all their eggs in one basket of one deal and wasted time on no-string pay deal. The original offer over a short period and a better offer from April 2023 without all the strikes will have been better and not left the company in a worse state to pay us.

I prefer my money in my hand right now not later. Sone are leaving us (VR) in 2 weeks and 10 weeks and so on - their deserved pay rise even at 3.5%+2%+£500 is gone forever. At least, they got the 2%.

The strikes were for nothing since October - only the Union fanboys and girls will say so.

Whatabout the new ballot? What has changed then? Maybe, they should have listened well to Simon Thompson. He might not be directly involved these days but what he had said and his final final offer before Christmas is where we are at bar a few minor changes.

[k979aaa]

Well if it was left to you cj we would all be in bed with st so go do one!