Annualised hours

[Barnacle]

If you are partnered with a part timer the whole notion of taking a second 20min break during delivery or back at the office is moot because they don’t work long enough to take a 20min break with you.

[SpacePhoenix]

There are some strange people on this thread.
The agreement to use 20 minutes of your break at the end of your duty is a national agreement.

It's a bit weird that we have members on here who support Royal Mail ignoring agreements.

Nobody is going home early, it's built into your duty in the same way that the other 20 minutes is.

Are people who work in mailcentres forced to stay on the premises during their break?

Higher ups as SP likes to call them are interested in what gets done during duty time not meal breaks, just the same as they are in mailcentres.

For supposedly intelligent people to be thinking that going home during your scheduled 20 minute break somehow means you're "20 minutes light" in your duty hours is pretty incredible.

Does that mean if someone in a mailcentres goes to McDonald's for their lunch they're 50 minutes light?

All breaks in MCs have to be taken during the shift and not at the end. Ends of shifts in MCs are when dispatches take place.

If someone takes their break at the end of their shift but scans out at the start of the break, the system doesn't record that they're taking their break, it just records them as having finished early by however long their break is. The higher ups won't be asking if someone was taking their break at the end, they'll be purely interested in the difference between the time someone scans out and what time their duty is meant to finish at

[Barnacle]

There are some strange people on this thread.
The agreement to use 20 minutes of your break at the end of your duty is a national agreement.

It's a bit weird that we have members on here who support Royal Mail ignoring agreements.

Nobody is going home early, it's built into your duty in the same way that the other 20 minutes is.

Are people who work in mailcentres forced to stay on the premises during their break?

Higher ups as SP likes to call them are interested in what gets done during duty time not meal breaks, just the same as they are in mailcentres.

For supposedly intelligent people to be thinking that going home during your scheduled 20 minute break somehow means you're "20 minutes light" in your duty hours is pretty incredible.

Does that mean if someone in a mailcentres goes to McDonald's for their lunch they're 50 minutes light?

All breaks in MCs have to be taken during the shift and not at the end. Ends of shifts in MCs are when dispatches take place.

If someone takes their break at the end of their shift but scans out at the start of the break, the system doesn't record that they're taking their break, it just records them as having finished early by however long their break is. The higher ups won't be asking if someone was taking their break at the end, they'll be purely interested in the difference between the time someone scans out and what time their duty is meant to finish at

I think everyone ought to work on the assumption that this is how they will use the SISO data. They certainly won’t be using it in our favour, they’ll just take the PDAs word for it.

[Tman]

If someone takes their break at the end of their shift but scans out at the start of the break, the system doesn't record that they're taking their break, it just records them as having finished early by however long their break is. The higher ups won't be asking if someone was taking their break at the end, they'll be purely interested in the difference between the time someone scans out and what time their duty is meant to finish at

Hey, don't you realise that deliveries exist in their own world, one where the basic rules of SISO don't exist?
Apparently they have "agreements" going back years which mean they don't have to follow the requirements of RM/SISO in 2023.

[Woody Guthrie]

Apparently they have "agreements" going back years which mean they don't have to follow the requirements of RM/SISO in 2023

.

It's already been pointed out to you that the requirements of RM/SISO in 2023 allow for breaks to be taken at the end.

Read the guidance...

[77SAMPOST77]

Apparently they have "agreements" going back years which mean they don't have to follow the requirements of RM/SISO in 2023

.

It's already been pointed out to you that the requirements of RM/SISO in 2023 allow for breaks to be taken at the end.

Read the guidance...

Breaks in my opinion should not be taken before or at the end of working shift ,
The whole point of a break is to BREAK UP the working a day and give you a rest period which is even more important if you are on driving duties
for safety reasons .

[SpacePhoenix]

Apparently they have "agreements" going back years which mean they don't have to follow the requirements of RM/SISO in 2023

.

It's already been pointed out to you that the requirements of RM/SISO in 2023 allow for breaks to be taken at the end.

Read the guidance...

When someone has scanned out early as they're taking their break at the end of the shift, when the higher ups look at the data, how will they know that the person was taking their break at the end of the shift? They're not going to contact the relevant COM to ask if the person was taking their break

[Splappy_McSplap]

Breaks in my opinion should not be taken before or at the end of working shift ,
The whole point of a break is to BREAK UP the working a day and give you a rest period which is even more important if you are on driving duties
for safety reasons .

That is why you take 20 minutes before going out.

That is 20 minutes of your 40 minute entitlement. If you want to take the rest halfway through your delivery, no one says you can't. If you want to take it at the end, and sign out after, no one says you can't. If you want to take it at the end after signing out, that is in accordance with a national agreement as has been discussed, with proof posted.

If RM assumes that the sign out time for delivery staff is their finish time for the purposes of a revision, THEN THEY MADE A MISTAKE.

We all know that they are going to make a complete arse of it because they have done so every single time for the whole 15 years I have been with them.

[Clappedoutpostie]

Apparently they have "agreements" going back years which mean they don't have to follow the requirements of RM/SISO in 2023

.

It's already been pointed out to you that the requirements of RM/SISO in 2023 allow for breaks to be taken at the end.

Read the guidance...

When someone has scanned out early as they're taking their break at the end of the shift, when the higher ups look at the data, how will they know that the person was taking their break at the end of the shift? They're not going to contact the relevant COM to ask if the person was taking their break

It’s not rocket science, whoever is looking at the data will quickly realise that office A has a local agreement allowing people to take there break at the end where as office B doesn’t. There’s probably even an excel sheet somewhere that lists which office has and hasn’t got an agreement in place. If there isn’t they might use a thing call telephone or email to contact the DOM at the office they are inspecting to clarify. Get over it.

[Barnacle]

Apparently they have "agreements" going back years which mean they don't have to follow the requirements of RM/SISO in 2023

.

It's already been pointed out to you that the requirements of RM/SISO in 2023 allow for breaks to be taken at the end.

Read the guidance...

When someone has scanned out early as they're taking their break at the end of the shift, when the higher ups look at the data, how will they know that the person was taking their break at the end of the shift? They're not going to contact the relevant COM to ask if the person was taking their break

It’s not rocket science, whoever is looking at the data will quickly realise that office A has a local agreement allowing people to take there break at the end where as office B doesn’t. There’s probably even an excel sheet somewhere that lists which office has and hasn’t got an agreement in place. If there isn’t they might use a thing call telephone or email to contact the DOM at the office they are inspecting to clarify. Get over it.

I’m not taking the risk of just assuming they will recognise a break taken at the end. I’m covering my arse by assuming they won’t, by finishing on time and taking breaks before the end. If it turns out I’m wrong and they are going to be all lovely about it then so be it. At least I’m covered if they’re not.

[Tman]

That's sensible and realistic, I'd say.
To think that RM won't take the opportunity to tighten the screws on those who take a break at the end of the shift (go home early) must be naively simplistic, now SISO records the data.

[mjd24]

There are some strange people on this thread.
The agreement to use 20 minutes of your break at the end of your duty is a national agreement.

It's a bit weird that we have members on here who support Royal Mail ignoring agreements.

Nobody is going home early, it's built into your duty in the same way that the other 20 minutes is.

Are people who work in mailcentres forced to stay on the premises during their break?

Higher ups as SP likes to call them are interested in what gets done during duty time not meal breaks, just the same as they are in mailcentres.

For supposedly intelligent people to be thinking that going home during your scheduled 20 minute break somehow means you're "20 minutes light" in your duty hours is pretty incredible.

Does that mean if someone in a mailcentres goes to McDonald's for their lunch they're 50 minutes light?

All breaks in MCs have to be taken during the shift and not at the end. Ends of shifts in MCs are when dispatches take place.

If someone takes their break at the end of their shift but scans out at the start of the break, the system doesn't record that they're taking their break, it just records them as having finished early by however long their break is. The higher ups won't be asking if someone was taking their break at the end, they'll be purely interested in the difference between the time someone scans out and what time their duty is meant to finish at

He wasn’t suggesting MC staff might take their break at the end.

[mjd24]

Apparently they have "agreements" going back years which mean they don't have to follow the requirements of RM/SISO in 2023

.

It's already been pointed out to you that the requirements of RM/SISO in 2023 allow for breaks to be taken at the end.

Read the guidance...

Breaks in my opinion should not be taken before or at the end of working shift ,
The whole point of a break is to BREAK UP the working a day and give you a rest period which is even more important if you are on driving duties
for safety reasons .

For me, being forced to take my break during delivery, having to sit in a shitty van for 20 minutes . . . That would leave me feeling far more mentally and physically tired than being allowed to take it at the end.

[mjd24]

[

What we do is different. In winter particularly i often spend an hour or so at least holding in a wee because there just arent any toilets available.

What has lack of toilet facilities got to do with being 20 mins light on your hours every day?
You reckon the RM powers-that-be will accept that as a valid reason go home early?

Sure do chap.

[mjd24]

Only in the strange niave world of RM would anyone attempt to justify leaving 20 minutes early by claiming that "I never took my break".
In the Real World, the reply would be "more fool you then, but you're still staying to the end of your attendance time".

In the “Real World” lots of jobs involve working in a nice warm office environment where staff consume multiple cups of tea or coffee throughout the day, with toilet facilities on hand.

What we do is different. In winter particularly i often spend an hour or so at least holding in a wee because there just arent any toilets available.

I suspect a lot of staff still have the mindset that if they have done their duty plus the lapse and if they still finish early then its fair dinkum and they should be allowed to leave early.

The issue is when managers look at their finish times and decide that everyone else should then be allocated more lapsing to do. This doesn't make sense in any world other than Royal Mail management.

What are you talking about?! We’re talking about taking your break at the end of duty! How is that leaving early?!