Off sick with COVID, pay being stopped

[peggend1]

Hi,

I'm currently off sick with COVID and feel pretty poorly. I have forwarded NHS email to my manager that says to isolate for 5 days along with a sick note from doctors saying I'm not fit for work.
I've been off 3 days up until now and manager has told me my pay will definitely be deducted. Is this lawful? Any advice would be great thanks

[pieoftheday]

Jeez are managers still doing this, if you dont have a union rep contact your local branch for best advice

[Gary55]

Got to say that it's in contradiction of royal mail stated policy. I recently had COVID and my manager was very supportive and understanding. You must have a rogue one

[pieoftheday]

It's not RM policy to withhold pay for being on sick is it? So I'd approach the manager that said they would withhold it and let him/her know that you will be instigating legal proceedings against them personally

[redlen]

You cannot instigate legal proceedings against a manager personally. It will be Royal Mail Group Ltd.

What you need to do is submit a grievance in writing giving 14 days to rectify. Section 13 Employment Rights Act 1996 Unlawful deduction of Wages.

Failing that, you contact HR and issue a stage 2 grievance,
If still no response after two weeks, you instigate ACAS and an employment tribunal.
The key is a paper trail, so do everything by email

[pieoftheday]

You cannot instigate legal proceedings against a manager personally. It will be Royal Mail Group Ltd.

What you need to do is submit a grievance in writing giving 14 days to rectify. Section 13 Employment Rights Act 1996 Unlawful deduction of Wages.

Failing that, you contact HR and issue a stage 2 grievance,
If still no response after two weeks, you instigate ACAS and an employment tribunal.
The key is a paper trail, so do everything by email

Yes but it's a manager doing it off his own back as it's not RM policy to stop sick pay

[redlen]

The manager is an official representative of Royal Mail,
Your contract of employment is with Royal Mail, not the manager.

[pieoftheday]

The manager is an official representative of Royal Mail,
Your contract of employment is with Royal Mail, not the manager.

He cant be representing royal mail as it isnt royal mail policy to stop sick pay,the manager is operating outside of royal mail policy, I couldnt care less what legal stuff you quote

[POSTMAN]

RM Coronavirus Support
A manager does not have to count such absences (Covid) towards an attendance review, so my advice would be that employees who remain absent in order to protect the health of their colleagues continue to raise this as mitigation as part of the attendance procedure.

And please see the Global Announcement here...
RMCtv : Existing sick leave policy being applied during industrial action : There has been no change to our existing sick leave policy but... (Dr COM's)

[luddite]

As I understand it you can take legal action against a manager if he or she have stepped outside of company policy. This manager clearly has and if push came to shove regarding legal action would not have the support of his or hers employer.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

The manager is an official representative of Royal Mail,
Your contract of employment is with Royal Mail, not the manager.

He cant be representing royal mail as it isnt royal mail policy to stop sick pay,the manager is operating outside of royal mail policy, I couldnt care less what legal stuff you quote

Your acceptance or rejection of the "legal stuff" has no bearing on the facts as they will be decided by a tribunal. Sorry if that's harsh but your misunderstanding or lack of legal knowledge could be detrimental to anyone in the same situation further down the line.

By the dint of being employed as a Manager or a Postal Worker, both grades are representing Royal Mail when they are at work, even if they go against Royal Mail policies.

That's why the grievance and tribunal processes are targeted at the company rather than its representatives. If the manager is going against RM policies then RM should have processes in place to protect the worker, one of them is the grievance procedure outlined above. Then if the outcome is unsatisfactory a tribunal will look at the legal issues and affected Royal mail policies and procedures with an unbiased viewpoint and reach a decision.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

As I understand it you can take legal action against a manager if he or she have stepped outside of company policy. T

I don't think that's correct https://www.peoplemanagement.co.uk/arti ... es-actions

Vicarious liability is a doctrine of law under which one person is liable for the wrongdoings of another. In the workplace, this means an employer may be found liable for an employee's unlawful actions, provided the wrongdoing was carried out in the course of employment.

As strict liability rules apply, the employer itself does not need to have done anything wrong or unlawful to be found liable. What matters is that there is sufficient connection between the employee's wrongdoing and their employment.

[redlen]

The only time you can normally have an opportunity in the Civil Courts to litigate against individual managers of a company is with issues such as health and safety, where the manager deliberately and willfully ignores legislation and company policy that results in Death/personal injury.

Failure to pay wages is a simple breach of contract.

Before you can litigate, go through pre-action Protocol. That will be the company grievance procedure and part of the Acas code of practice. A senior manager will then decide if the deduction was lawful and justified in that internal grievance procedure. Just that one action removes any liability on the original manager as it is now under the control of HR Services that represent the company. Following this procedure is compulsory with the Employment Tribunal Service.

[redlen]

The manager is an official representative of Royal Mail,
Your contract of employment is with Royal Mail, not the manager.

He cant be representing royal mail as it isnt royal mail policy to stop sick pay,the manager is operating outside of royal mail policy, I couldnt care less what legal stuff you quote

Your acceptance or rejection of the "legal stuff" has no bearing on the facts as they will be decided by a tribunal. Sorry if that's harsh but your misunderstanding or lack of legal knowledge could be detrimental to anyone in the same situation further down the line.

By the dint of being employed as a Manager or a Postal Worker, both grades are representing Royal Mail when they are at work, even if they go against Royal Mail policies.

That's why the grievance and tribunal processes are targeted at the company rather than its representatives. If the manager is going against RM policies then RM should have processes in place to protect the worker, one of them is the grievance procedure outlined above. Then if the outcome is unsatisfactory a tribunal will look at the legal issues and affected Royal mail policies and procedures with an unbiased viewpoint and reach a decision.

You make a valid point in that managers are also employees of Royal Mail bound by the same disciplinary and grievance procedure as OPG Staff.

[pieoftheday]

The manager is an official representative of Royal Mail,
Your contract of employment is with Royal Mail, not the manager.

He cant be representing royal mail as it isnt royal mail policy to stop sick pay,the manager is operating outside of royal mail policy, I couldnt care less what legal stuff you quote

Your acceptance or rejection of the "legal stuff" has no bearing on the facts as they will be decided by a tribunal. Sorry if that's harsh but your misunderstanding or lack of legal knowledge could be detrimental to anyone in the same situation further down the line.

By the dint of being employed as a Manager or a Postal Worker, both grades are representing Royal Mail when they are at work, even if they go against Royal Mail policies.

That's why the grievance and tribunal processes are targeted at the company rather than its representatives. If the manager is going against RM policies then RM should have processes in place to protect the worker, one of them is the grievance procedure outlined above. Then if the outcome is unsatisfactory a tribunal will look at the legal issues and affected Royal mail policies and procedures with an unbiased viewpoint and reach a decision.

Ah well then, if something is unjust but legal let's all just roll over and have our tummies tickled