No compulsory redundancies

[derricksmyth]

At least 3 things in that letter make no sense.

1. 'We are trying to survive' - yet there's an article out there saying they have billions of pounds.

2. They have said before 'no compulsory redundancies until March 2023', then it was changed to 'no compulsory redundancies until Jan 2024', now it's 'no compulsory redundancies' at all?. They say the CWU were scaremongering. Pot kettle black? was the threat of compulsory redundancies a scare tactic then? - or is Royal Mail simply lying all round and there actually will be compulsory redundancies?

The Union have asked Royal Mail to agree 'no compulsory redundancies'...... Royal Mail hasn't agreed that with them.....so why are they coming to us! it's a con!

3. 12,000 people have returned to work? - really - you think we believe that. You are just referring to agency workers - right!!!

Sickness is also counted as working . We must have about 10000 sick at the moment

[Martin Walsh]

London Calling :

URGENT

Dear Colleague

Your solidarity and support for the strikes have made Royal Mail do another U turn on compulsory redundancies.

Their latest statement seems to indicate that they have done a complete 360 degree turn on this issue.

Royal Mail had asked the union to agree a criteria for compulsory redundancies and Alistair Wood, the Director of Workforce Performance and HR, wrote to the CWU on 24th November stating that Royal Mail had identified the following criteria for compulsory redundancies.

1. Conduct
2. Attendance
3.Capitbility / Skills ( eg Driving Licence in Delivery
4. Any other appropriate criteria ( eg customer complaints )

Royal Mail then said that there would be no compulsory redundancies until March 2023 , all of 4 months.

On Monday in response to Stuart McDonald the IR Director asking the CWU what would stop the strikes ?

The CWU put 5 issues back to Royal Mail and the first was that there must be a guarantee of no compulsory redundancies. This also meant that agency should be stood down , no increase in owner drivers and no new entrants should be on lower terms and conditions. In addition there would need to be a separate agreement where offices were due to close.

Stuart Mcdonald Royal Mails Industrial Relations Director responded with the following “ RMG guarantee there will be no compulsory redundancies including arising from proposed site closures until 1st January 2024. This guarantee will be reviewed in conjunction of any final agreement. This is providing no further industrial action is called during this period “

Stuart McDonalds letter did not move on owner drivers or new recruits on inferior terms.

In fact his commitment was based on two conditions, no more industrial action and based on a final agreement.

Then after the solid support of the last 48 hours strike action , Royal Mail appears to have conceded to no compulsory redundancies and incredibly have tried to suggest this was always the plan. How bizarre especially as they accuse the CWU of lying about the threat of compulsory redundancies and yet it is clear that Royal Mail had proposed compulsory redundancies and even suggested a criteria for this.

However this simple statement is simply meaningless, if it is not within an agreement. After all, who trusts Royal Mail to honour any commitment they make.

Royal Mail have not addressed owner drivers , new recruits , standing down agency and what happens when an office is closing and you do not get the uptake for VR based on 9 months money.

Remember you made Royal Mail blink on compulsory redundancies by continuing to support the strikes.

There are currently 128 thousand CWU Grade staff in Royal Mail. according to Royal Mail there are 12 thousand CWU graded staff that are working on strike days. This therefore means that after 16 days of strike action that 91% of Royal Mail’s workforce are still supporting the industrial action.

CWU members are demanding that Royal Mail reconvene negotiations and reach an agreement on the conclusion of the dispute.

This will require Royal Mail making further changes to their strategy.

In addition there needs to be an amnesty for those reps and members who have been suspended for charges which would not hold up in any fair or reasonable process. Why are Royal Mail hiding and refusing an independent inquiry into these suspensions ? what have they got to hide ?

You are all hero’s in fighting for your conditions and future. Your sacrifice is working and Royal Mail are under huge pressure. They cannot enforce their financial recovery on their workforce and expect it to be successful.

Stand United , Stand proud and together we will get the right agreement on pay and change which protects Royal Mail for the future and our terms and conditions.

A statement by the London Divisional Committee

[rachsc]

Still using the “who wants to and CAN” line I see

Who is deciding who “can” work for Royal Mail?

Define “can” please Simon.

Thought exactly the same. Also, to what extent has this latest statement been motivated by realising that about a quarter of the workforce are willing to go voluntarily and for not very much money. Also also, might there have been legal issues with the selection criteria suggested by the business for compulsory redundancies after the different criteria (seniority) used for the current VRs.

[TopperGas]

Still using the “who wants to and CAN” line I see

Who is deciding who “can” work for Royal Mail?

Define “can” please Simon.

Thought exactly the same. Also, to what extent has this latest statement been motivated by realising that about a quarter of the workforce are willing to go voluntarily and for not very much money. Also also, might there have been legal issues with the selection criteria suggested by the business for compulsory redundancies after the different criteria (seniority) used for the current VRs.

Ricky said as much in yesterday's update, they clearly no longer after worry about CR as the VR take up has been so high, I just hope all those OPG's who requested VR actually wanted it and didn't just request it as they saw everybody else requesting it! The worry now is if everybody who requested VR gets offered it then who'll actually be left to deliver the post when they are all gone!!

[needadvice]

Don't they realise that we need an official agreement? No other brainwashing strategy will do it. An acceptable agreement is the only thing that would end this dispute. They can't sweet talk us like they can with lower end managers who say yes to everything. Even if there was an agreement, they can always goad us again and initiate another attack on us and come back for more things. We will never forget and forgive for what they have caused

[Ppat98]

Simon is getting fed up of taking all the slack so got the board to sign the letter with him lol
How they can deny the compulsory redundancies is crazy though. The letter signals desperation and stress from them all. Might be a good sign for us that they are gonna fold soon.

[posted]

I think this is the key bit to understand

"The changes we need to make to this business will NOT involve ANY compulsory redundancies."

The changes, in and of themselves, might not involve compulsory redundancies but what if next June - or whenever FY results are announced - or the pic looks worse (or economy tanks further or any other commercial factor), that may be used as a reason to 'rightsize' and announce more redundancies.

On redundancies, if your job/role is removed but they offer you another job that is based elsewhere or different times or whatever that is unsuitable but it's a take it or leave it offer. If you refuse is that considered compulsory or are you effectively making yourself voluntarily redundant?
There's an subjective argument about what is considered reasonable or suitable alternative employment.

[posted]

Don't they realise that we need an official agreement? No other brainwashing strategy will do it. An acceptable agreement is the only thing that would end this dispute. They can't sweet talk us like they can with lower end managers who say yes to everything. Even if there was an agreement, they can always goad us again and initiate another attack on us and come back for more things. We will never forget and forgive for what they have caused

I think this 'gesture' is just to end strikes next week but I would expect them to follow up negotiations into new year with option to keep current ballot live - or ofcourse the new ones announced. The agreement would have to come later.

It's often how it's done in past, allow CWU to keep ballot live

[norris9]

London Calling :

URGENT

Dear Colleague

Your solidarity and support for the strikes have made Royal Mail do another U turn on compulsory redundancies.

Their latest statement seems to indicate that they have done a complete 360 degree turn on this issue.

Royal Mail had asked the union to agree a criteria for compulsory redundancies and Alistair Wood, the Director of Workforce Performance and HR, wrote to the CWU on 24th November stating that Royal Mail had identified the following criteria for compulsory redundancies.

1. Conduct
2. Attendance
3.Capitbility / Skills ( eg Driving Licence in Delivery
4. Any other appropriate criteria ( eg customer complaints )

Royal Mail then said that there would be no compulsory redundancies until March 2023 , all of 4 months.

On Monday in response to Stuart McDonald the IR Director asking the CWU what would stop the strikes ?

The CWU put 5 issues back to Royal Mail and the first was that there must be a guarantee of no compulsory redundancies. This also meant that agency should be stood down , no increase in owner drivers and no new entrants should be on lower terms and conditions. In addition there would need to be a separate agreement where offices were due to close.

Stuart Mcdonald Royal Mails Industrial Relations Director responded with the following “ RMG guarantee there will be no compulsory redundancies including arising from proposed site closures until 1st January 2024. This guarantee will be reviewed in conjunction of any final agreement. This is providing no further industrial action is called during this period “

Stuart McDonalds letter did not move on owner drivers or new recruits on inferior terms.

In fact his commitment was based on two conditions, no more industrial action and based on a final agreement.

Then after the solid support of the last 48 hours strike action , Royal Mail appears to have conceded to no compulsory redundancies and incredibly have tried to suggest this was always the plan. How bizarre especially as they accuse the CWU of lying about the threat of compulsory redundancies and yet it is clear that Royal Mail had proposed compulsory redundancies and even suggested a criteria for this.

However this simple statement is simply meaningless, if it is not within an agreement. After all, who trusts Royal Mail to honour any commitment they make.

Royal Mail have not addressed owner drivers , new recruits , standing down agency and what happens when an office is closing and you do not get the uptake for VR based on 9 months money.

Remember you made Royal Mail blink on compulsory redundancies by continuing to support the strikes.

There are currently 128 thousand CWU Grade staff in Royal Mail. according to Royal Mail there are 12 thousand CWU graded staff that are working on strike days. This therefore means that after 16 days of strike action that 91% of Royal Mail’s workforce are still supporting the industrial action.

CWU members are demanding that Royal Mail reconvene negotiations and reach an agreement on the conclusion of the dispute.

This will require Royal Mail making further changes to their strategy.

In addition there needs to be an amnesty for those reps and members who have been suspended for charges which would not hold up in any fair or reasonable process. Why are Royal Mail hiding and refusing an independent inquiry into these suspensions ? what have they got to hide ?

You are all hero’s in fighting for your conditions and future. Your sacrifice is working and Royal Mail are under huge pressure. They cannot enforce their financial recovery on their workforce and expect it to be successful.

Stand United , Stand proud and together we will get the right agreement on pay and change which protects Royal Mail for the future and our terms and conditions.

A statement by the London Divisional Committee

Wonderful - an agreement is on the horizon and then we can all move on!!!!

[portadown]

As new technologie comes in the company is always going to down size but there is away off doing it with out upsetting ur work force bye threats off jobs going a happy work force works above and beyond

[walthmstowman]

you have to ask yourself am i in another universe ? the responses from RM are just getting more and more bizarre !

Have you heard of the butterfly affect . Cern have just fired off the Hadron Collider again .

[sixfoottwo]

Let's not lose sight of all the other issues which to me are just as important, I will be fuming if the Union bow down to this and call off next weeks strike action but sadly I can see this happening, hope I am wrong though.

[walthmstowman]

Although managements statement on No compulsory redundancies is a welcome step in the right direction its meaningless unless its built into a national agreement with the union .

[the beautiful bd south]

Just out of interest, would this letter (not yet received) be evidence in any employment tribunal?
Might be worthwhile keeping it safe lol

[walthmstowman]

Let's not lose sight of all the other issues which to me are just as important, I will be fuming if the Union bow down to this and call off next weeks strike action but sadly I can see this happening, hope I am wrong though.

I think there would need to be considerable progress in negotiations for that to happen . . We want and need a proper agreement