You should take steps to avoid compulsory redundancies, for example by:
seeking applicants for voluntary redundancy or early retirement
seeking applications from existing staff to work flexibly
laying off self-employed contractors and freelancers
not using casual labour
restricting recruitment
reducing or banning overtime
filling vacancies elsewhere in the business with existing employees.
From the Government website , me thinks there’s going to be thousands of tribunals if they are replacing existing staff with casual workers.
As to my previous post..
The Employment Law Firm in question was setting out legally on how to AVOID unnecessary tribunals.
I don't understand where the job losses come from - they need all of us to cover the USO and help with Sunday deliveries now and again. There is no reason for job losses.
Unless there are a huge number of towns and villages out there where there are posties with barely anything to deliver and they are having a jolly-up everyday. It's definitely not like that in the town I work in - most houses get post almost daily.
If they want to get rid of us on compulsory redundancy - it's simply fire and rehire. Take them to court. Only 1 P&O employee took them to court and he won. I am not sure it was announced how much he won, but I assume it was millions £££££ seeing as he was suing them for millions.
Last edited by norris9 on 03 Dec 2022, 16:48, edited 1 time in total.
Its all Physiological,
RM know the Law they are just trying to demoralise, wind people up and place fear into the workforce.(Tow the line or you are out sort of thing.)
The Board are just Charlatans, short term counting their bonuses and not even intrested.
I don't understand where the job losses come from - they need all of us to cover the USO and help with Sunday deliveries now and again. There is no reason for job losses.
Unless there are a huge number of towns and villages out there where there are posties with barely anything to deliver and they are having a jolly-up everyday. It's definitely not like that in the town I work in - most houses get post almost daily.
If they want to get rid of us on compulsory redundancy - it's simply fire and rehire. Take them to court. Only 1 P&O employee took them to court and he won. I am not sure it was announced how much he won, but I assume it was millions £££££ seeing as he was suing them for millions.
If it’s anything like our small delivery office which is already running with about six vacancies, I would imagine any revision would consist of , we won’t make any redundancies but we won’t recruit and you can all absorb anothe 500 calls each even though we have five hour deliveries already, oh and we’ll take some large parcels off you to the hubs which will come back when they can’t deliver them .
You should take steps to avoid compulsory redundancies, for example by:
seeking applicants for voluntary redundancy or early retirement
seeking applications from existing staff to work flexibly
laying off self-employed contractors and freelancers
not using casual labour
restricting recruitment
reducing or banning overtime
filling vacancies elsewhere in the business with existing employees.
From the Government website , me thinks there’s going to be thousands of tribunals if they are replacing existing staff with casual workers.
As to my previous post..
The Employment Law Firm in question was setting out legally on how to AVOID unnecessary tribunals.
I don’t know what’s going on in the background and I’m certainly no expert in employment law , but I really think the union need to make more noise about taking RM to court if they even think about trying to circumnavigate or break employment law by replacing full time permanent staff with casuals doing the same job.
I don't understand where the job losses come from - they need all of us to cover the USO and help with Sunday deliveries now and again. There is no reason for job losses.
Unless there are a huge number of towns and villages out there where there are posties with barely anything to deliver and they are having a jolly-up everyday. It's definitely not like that in the town I work in - most houses get post almost daily.
If they want to get rid of us on compulsory redundancy - it's simply fire and rehire. Take them to court. Only 1 P&O employee took them to court and he won. I am not sure it was announced how much he won, but I assume it was millions £££££ seeing as he was suing them for millions.
If it’s anything like our small delivery office which is already running with about six vacancies, I would imagine any revision would consist of , we won’t make any redundancies but we won’t recruit and you can all absorb anothe 500 calls each even though we have five hour deliveries already, oh and we’ll take some large parcels off you to the hubs which will come back when they can’t deliver them .
My local delivery office has been told exactly that..
Running at 5/6 vancancies NOW.
No redundancies
Absorb all vacant duties.
They can’t cope now lunacy
I don't understand where the job losses come from - they need all of us to cover the USO and help with Sunday deliveries now and again. There is no reason for job losses.
Unless there are a huge number of towns and villages out there where there are posties with barely anything to deliver and they are having a jolly-up everyday. It's definitely not like that in the town I work in - most houses get post almost daily.
If they want to get rid of us on compulsory redundancy - it's simply fire and rehire. Take them to court. Only 1 P&O employee took them to court and he won. I am not sure it was announced how much he won, but I assume it was millions £££££ seeing as he was suing them for millions.
If it’s anything like our small delivery office which is already running with about six vacancies, I would imagine any revision would consist of , we won’t make any redundancies but we won’t recruit and you can all absorb anothe 500 calls each even though we have five hour deliveries already, oh and we’ll take some large parcels off you to the hubs which will come back when they can’t deliver them .
My local delivery office has been told exactly that..
Running at 5/6 vancancies NOW.
No redundancies
Absorb all vacant duties.
They can’t cope now lunacy
If Royal Mail think anybody permanent or otherwise will be able to cope or hang about with deliveries of nearly a thousand calls they really are living in cloud cuckoo, we’ve already had blokes with long service leave to do Monday to Friday warehouse jobs and they reckon compared to delivering mail it’s a doddle, and for more money .
I don't understand where the job losses come from - they need all of us to cover the USO and help with Sunday deliveries now and again. There is no reason for job losses.
Unless there are a huge number of towns and villages out there where there are posties with barely anything to deliver and they are having a jolly-up everyday. It's definitely not like that in the town I work in - most houses get post almost daily.
If they want to get rid of us on compulsory redundancy - it's simply fire and rehire. Take them to court. Only 1 P&O employee took them to court and he won. I am not sure it was announced how much he won, but I assume it was millions £££££ seeing as he was suing them for millions.
If it’s anything like our small delivery office which is already running with about six vacancies, I would imagine any revision would consist of , we won’t make any redundancies but we won’t recruit and you can all absorb anothe 500 calls each even though we have five hour deliveries already, oh and we’ll take some large parcels off you to the hubs which will come back when they can’t deliver them .
My local delivery office has been told exactly that..
Running at 5/6 vancancies NOW.
No redundancies
Absorb all vacant duties.
They can’t cope now lunacy
If Royal Mail think anybody permanent or otherwise will be able to cope or hang about with deliveries of nearly a thousand calls they really are living in cloud cuckoo, we’ve already had blokes with long service leave to do Monday to Friday warehouse jobs and they reckon compared to delivering mail it’s a doddle, and for more money .
Half of the strike breakers agency staff have left since june so what will it be simon more pay or crack the whip!
This is now a serious concern. For anybody who wishes to be made voluntary redundant that is fine, but otherwise there are some serious questions to be asked.
Do we have any kind of clarity on how people could be made redundant while agency workers are involved ?
Also, I believe that before anybody can be forced out, all other options have to be exhausted first such as redeployment, or a different duty where possible ?
Royal Mail in my opinion can not have it both ways - ie claiming that the work is unskilled but then selecting people for redundancy based on "skills". Apart from driving most OPG Grade jobs can be undertaken by anybody with a day or 2 training and often not even that. Many agency workers are given very basic training for some jobs now classed as skilled and any permanent member of staff could be trained in the same way to move to a different role.
Can the union please offer some clarity on any of this ? This is a very serious situation and proper, concrete advice rather than motivational gestures is required for peace of mind.
IMO, compulsory redundancies are now the biggest issue .
Somebody has to deliver the letters. We've had a lot of claims made but very little substance as yet.
We just need some clarity.
Can the union please give us some clarity.
We.keep being told we will win but what does that mean.
Does it mean there will be zero Compulsory redundancies and how will that be achieved please.
Unfortunately, no matter what people think, the union cannot guarantee anything, all they can do is try and negotiate the best deal they can. As seen, RM or any employer can then, tear them up.
They maybe able to tear them up but they can not operate outside of the law.
You should take steps to avoid compulsory redundancies, for example by:
seeking applicants for voluntary redundancy or early retirement
seeking applications from existing staff to work flexibly
laying off self-employed contractors and freelancers
not using casual labour
restricting recruitment
reducing or banning overtime
filling vacancies elsewhere in the business with existing employees.
From the Government website , me thinks there’s going to be thousands of tribunals if they are replacing existing staff with casual workers.
As to my previous post..
The Employment Law Firm in question was setting out legally on how to AVOID unnecessary tribunals.
I don’t know what’s going on in the background and I’m certainly no expert in employment law , but I really think the union need to make more noise about taking RM to court if they even think about trying to circumnavigate or break employment law by replacing full time permanent staff with casuals doing the same job.
They'd probably argue the agency staff are just covering the vacant walks and not the one's where the duty holders have been made CR!!
The rumour in our office it that 10% will now have to go but we we're already 10% short, so that's 20% of walks not being covered if they do all leave. Although we're probably oversubscribed with VR candidates anyway.
I still don’t quite understand that if VR is over subscribed how the RM can make compulsory redundancies, even the government website is quite clear that VR and redeployment should be explored before compulsory redundancies .
This is now a serious concern. For anybody who wishes to be made voluntary redundant that is fine, but otherwise there are some serious questions to be asked.
Do we have any kind of clarity on how people could be made redundant while agency workers are involved ?
Also, I believe that before anybody can be forced out, all other options have to be exhausted first such as redeployment, or a different duty where possible ?
Royal Mail in my opinion can not have it both ways - ie claiming that the work is unskilled but then selecting people for redundancy based on "skills". Apart from driving most OPG Grade jobs can be undertaken by anybody with a day or 2 training and often not even that. Many agency workers are given very basic training for some jobs now classed as skilled and any permanent member of staff could be trained in the same way to move to a different role.
Can the union please offer some clarity on any of this ? This is a very serious situation and proper, concrete advice rather than motivational gestures is required for peace of mind.
IMO, compulsory redundancies are now the biggest issue .
So does that mean that anytime in future there is a dispute over anything, RM can just threaten compulsory redundancies and that becomes the focus rather than what the dispute is about?
If you tolerate this, then your paid break will be next
This is now a serious concern. For anybody who wishes to be made voluntary redundant that is fine, but otherwise there are some serious questions to be asked.
Do we have any kind of clarity on how people could be made redundant while agency workers are involved ?
Also, I believe that before anybody can be forced out, all other options have to be exhausted first such as redeployment, or a different duty where possible ?
Royal Mail in my opinion can not have it both ways - ie claiming that the work is unskilled but then selecting people for redundancy based on "skills". Apart from driving most OPG Grade jobs can be undertaken by anybody with a day or 2 training and often not even that. Many agency workers are given very basic training for some jobs now classed as skilled and any permanent member of staff could be trained in the same way to move to a different role.
Can the union please offer some clarity on any of this ? This is a very serious situation and proper, concrete advice rather than motivational gestures is required for peace of mind.
IMO, compulsory redundancies are now the biggest issue .
So does that mean that anytime in future there is a dispute over anything, RM can just threaten compulsory redundancies and that becomes the focus rather than what the dispute is about?
No. It's not the "threat" that the issue is about, it is the potential reality that needs to be heeded and addressed. Never before to my knowledge have we been even threatened with compulsory redundancies. In fact we've always been assured it wont happen.
It is not us forcing this issue. But only we can be the ones to quash it.
This is now a serious concern. For anybody who wishes to be made voluntary redundant that is fine, but otherwise there are some serious questions to be asked.
Do we have any kind of clarity on how people could be made redundant while agency workers are involved ?
Also, I believe that before anybody can be forced out, all other options have to be exhausted first such as redeployment, or a different duty where possible ?
Royal Mail in my opinion can not have it both ways - ie claiming that the work is unskilled but then selecting people for redundancy based on "skills". Apart from driving most OPG Grade jobs can be undertaken by anybody with a day or 2 training and often not even that. Many agency workers are given very basic training for some jobs now classed as skilled and any permanent member of staff could be trained in the same way to move to a different role.
Can the union please offer some clarity on any of this ? This is a very serious situation and proper, concrete advice rather than motivational gestures is required for peace of mind.
IMO, compulsory redundancies are now the biggest issue .
So does that mean that anytime in future there is a dispute over anything, RM can just threaten compulsory redundancies and that becomes the focus rather than what the dispute is about?
No. It's not the "threat" that the issue is about, it is the potential reality that needs to be heeded and addressed. Never before to my knowledge have we been even threatened with compulsory redundancies. In fact we've always been assured it wont happen.
It is not us forcing this issue. But only we can be the ones to quash it.
You best get used to it because it’s going to be threatened a lot going forward.
If there is still a union presence every single time there’s even a murmur of a ballot for strike action for whatever reason - be prepared for compulsory redundancies to be spoken about by the company. It is their new tactic to focus the mind.
Even if it’s a threat they are prepared to carry out - it will still become the focus of every dispute going forward now.
If you tolerate this, then your paid break will be next
