Post Office hearing for subpostmasters 'Worker Status'

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The Post Office’s (PO) long-awaited showdown with the Communication Workers Union (CWU) over ‘Worker Status’ for subpostmasters began last week with its first hearing.

The start of the case (Baker & 120 ors v Post Office Ltd) marks the failure of both the PO and the CWU to reach a compromise, despite ‘intense’ talks between both parties having taken place between both parties since June 2021.

If successful, the employment tribunal would classify branch owners as essentially working for the Post Office, and therefore entitled to at least the minimum wage, pension and insurance contributions, holiday pay and the right to take collective action.

The claim was described by the Post Office during a preliminary hearing as an ‘existential threat’ to its business model. A win for the CWU could cost the PO hundreds of millions in backdated compensation, and lead to a rewriting of the relationship between the PO and its partnered retailers.

On the first hearing on 1 February, betterRetailing.com understands the Post Office attempted an ‘eleventh-hour’ attempt to throw out the claims of subpostmasters which had registered their post office branches as a limited company. However, it looks likely that whether to include Ltd companies will now be decided at the end of the tribunal.

Hearings will be resumed on 7 February with witness evidence from 10 CWU subpostmasters, followed by 17 witnesses for the Post Office, including subpostmasters and managers. A source close to the trial predicted this stage could last until mid-march.

Regardless of the outcome, the case marks another expensive litigation between the Post Office and its subpostmasters, with more than 3,000 pages of evidence submitted by the Post Office in its initial filings.

The case also has the eyes of the legal world upon it, with top legal professional magazine The Lawyer listing it as one of the top 10 cases to watch of 2021.

betterRetailing.com will be live blogged during the resumed hearing which can be viewed below.

Last Updated: 16 hours ago↓
16 hours ago
Todays tribunal hearing has ended


Simon Cheetham QC

What is case across counter security?

You were giving evidence of disciplinary measures and you referred to the Post Office adopting to what you refer as 'legacy' premises.


First claimant Mark Baker

It is that counter drivers are more prone for attacks as they are holding something that clearly contains money.

Case across the counter means they want me to do all the work with dealing with the money, or they came up with the option that I could take the driver into another room and have the handoff somewhere else.

We had the oral warnings, written warnings and then the termination with three months notice, we used to have a meeting called 'reasons to urge' which put forward the reasons as to why you should not be terminated. - which is what I meant by how they dealt with postmaster discipline.


Employment Judge Goodman

I was curious why you do not log into the Horizon system yourself and complete workload through your own log in.

I was interested why the back office work is still asked to be done through your wife's log in? - trial balance or ordering of stock/coin


You could if you want to open up the Horizon system and log in the data yourself?


First claimant Mark Baker

I log on when I have to do the compulsory compliance tests.

I use my wife's log in as it is easier as she already has the system open. I take the packages and just ask my wife to scan the labels for me.

You never know when a customer is coming in, I need to book in packages as quickly as I can. So I ask my wife to do it quickly.

I do the trial balance and stock control in out of hours, It is a degree of laziness on not going through the opening another terminal.

Martin Reuby

You talk about branding and a branded badge and uniform that has to wear. The uniform you have to wear do you have to wear safety boots?

Do you risk assess or do the Post Office risk assess the manual handling?

You talk about disciplinary, you spoke about going away for periods of time and your wife is left to run the Post Office - does the union pay for any loss of time or anything?


First claimant Mark Baker

I risk assess the manual handling of the branch, I am not aware of any support by the Post Office.

The union provide a substitute allowance which covers the costs of having to upgrade my wife's service through. She will take over my responsibility which may double her workload by helping out with back office duties. It was agreed with the assistant secretary that the substitute expenses would continue, it has been going on for 6-8 years ago.


Tribunal member Helen Craik

Looking at your own witness statement, you and Mr Jeans spoke a lot about operates managing and the labels.

You mention personal management control, tell me what you mean from this?

You refer for the difficulties of taking holidays, what do you do about holidays?

When I was reading the cotnract, it referenced Post Office supporting holidays if turnover exceeds £18,000



First claimant Mark Baker

I am held personally accountable, with the entire employability contract, i am held accountable for all the actions being made.

It is a logistically move to make to book holiday, we don't get any support in hiring holiday cover. We take our breaks during the weekend.

You are talking about the 1994 contract, it is a qualified allowance that you can show you are able to exceed over £18,000 of turnover and have met the Post Office's criteria. It is not applicable to us.

Questions from the tribunal

End of Christopher Jeans QC Counsel for tribunal questions towards the first claimant Mark Baker

Christopher Jeans QC Counsel for the tribunal

In your completion statement, in your own case, the purchase was framed as the purchase of a post office.

Your own perspective was that you were buying a post office and contributed to your decision to buy it.

It would be surprising if that had not influenced the seller's price.


First claimant Mark Baker

Yeah, that is true.

Nowadays you don't ask for any premium as they well get the fees from the Post Office.

I will make it clear for anyone who is interested, whether they are interested that they could apply for the Post Office and be careful about what the fees are. - if my Larkhill Post Office would ever be on sale.

Some people would see it as a positive things to purchase a business with a post office attached.

Some say having a post office as part of the offer is a detriment.


Christopher Jeans QC Counsel for tribunal

Whenever a postmasters put the premises on the market, an asset that contributes to the price is that it is a post office and offers the post office business - it is part of the attractiveness.



First claimant Mark Baker

It is very unwise to not check with the post office that they are going to offer the same condition with the new buyer, otherwise sales will be lost and the sale may fall through.


Christopher Jeans QC Counsel for tribunal

You say at the end of your statement that you can not market or sell your branch without the Post Office permission.

It is true that a postmaster cannot be made without the permission of the Post Office.

The Post Office has to agree to a new postmaster coming into post office.



First claimant Mark Baker

I always make it clear that a new postmaster will have to go to the Post Office to get the final approval.