5:30pm today 18/09/20

[Schiff]

Seriously though what can the union do apart from talk?

They could be honest with the membership, stop trying to play the big shot and get their own house in order. Improve representation and diversity throughout the branch structure. Start protecting members at office level. Clear out the old boys network and the glorified social clubs. Engage with Royal Mail on a professional level. Ditch the love affair with social media. Start acting like a union.
There's more but I don't want to do a Terry...

You should have applied for Terry's job. In fact almost anyone, except Terry, should have applied for Terry's job.

[daveyeff]

Terry spent a whole hour talking while simultaneously saying absolutely nothing. Tune in next week for the latest non update update.

Well he did mention the starting point of a 3 Yr pay deal was derisory and below what the managers got.......and they aren't allowed to talk about any details to the members

[CLINTEASTWOOD]

Terry spent a whole hour talking while simultaneously saying absolutely nothing. Tune in next week for the latest non update update.

Yes i honeslty fell asleep 18 mins in Same old crap again.

[shaun2urz]

Van sharing is back as long as you wear masks

There is zero chance that is going to happen. Until the government changes the rules on vehicle sharing during Covid then van share is not returning. And with the virus growing again the last thing the government will be doing is scaling back any of the rules/restrictions. Next spring is probably an optimistic target for van share to return and the sooner we all accept that the better.

What rules are these then? I've not seen any rules from the government regarding vehicle sharing. Obviously the binmen must have missed them too....

[postieblueshirt]

Seriously though what can the union do apart from talk? How much support would another ballot for strike action get from both members and the public in the current crisis? If we do get a vote for strike action Royal mail will just get another injunction anyway. We have to be patient. RM want members to become frustrated. We must stay calm, be patient and stick together.

I agree with what your saying but all this public support nonsense annoys me we are a private company now public support is a nothing we dont serve the public anymore were a privatised business not a public service...

[Woody Guthrie]

What rules are these then? I've not seen any rules from the government regarding vehicle sharing. Obviously the binmen must have missed them too....

It's all on the government website so that's probably why you missed them, who would have thought to look there?

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/working-saf ... 9/vehicles" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Objective: To maintain social distancing wherever possible between individuals when in vehicles:

avoid multiple occupancy vehicles where safe to do so

vehicles should not be shared if possible

if it is not possible to maintain social distancing guidelines inside vehicles (2m, or 1m with risk mitigation where 2m is not viable), consider additional safety measures

Steps that will usually be needed:

Keeping the number of people in the vehicle to a minimum and as distanced within the vehicle space as possible.

Devising mitigation measures where workers cannot maintain social distancing guidelines to minimise the risk of transmission, including:

– clear signage to outline social distancing measures in place
– single person or contactless refuelling where possible
– using physical screening, provided this does not compromise safety, for example, through reducing visibility
– sitting side-by-side not face-to-face and increasing ventilation where possible.

Using a fixed pairing system if workers have to be in close proximity, for example in a vehicle.

Making sure vehicles are well-ventilated to increase the flow of air, for example, by opening a window.

Ensure regular cleaning of vehicles, in particular between different users.

[k979aaa]

Well I don't know

The sight of Terry in a Tutu
But anyone can get used to
your loving singing voice
your loving singing voice
and no action in your head
and the reaction in your space between your head
once more to the ballot box
just don't let the cookies go to your head
oh no oh no oh no
Don't sell us out sell us out
Again
Again

[rambo1]

Van sharing is back as long as you wear masks

There is zero chance that is going to happen. Until the government changes the rules on vehicle sharing during Covid then van share is not returning. And with the virus growing again the last thing the government will be doing is scaling back any of the rules/restrictions. Next spring is probably an optimistic target for van share to return and the sooner we all accept that the better.

Bin men, police, ambulance crews, fire crews, driving instructors, bus drivers, taxi drivers, air stewards......why not posties? After all, we all work next to each other for the first 2 hrs of the day.

[rambo1]

Seriously though what can the union do apart from talk? How much support would another ballot for strike action get from both members and the public in the current crisis? If we do get a vote for strike action Royal mail will just get another injunction anyway. We have to be patient. RM want members to become frustrated. We must stay calm, be patient and stick together.

People also need to start sticking up/standing up for themselves and not expecting the union to wipe their arse for them. Things are going to start getting even worse in the next 3 or 4 weeks with autumn pressure. Just do what you can to the best of your ability, the managers can earn their 2.7% sorting the leftovers out.

Well said. No early starts, not even 2 mins, take all breaks even if you 'haven't got time' , if you don't have time for lapsing, tell them, if you don't want to do overtime tell them. Claim every minute of overtime you do.

[shaun2urz]

What rules are these then? I've not seen any rules from the government regarding vehicle sharing. Obviously the binmen must have missed them too....

It's all on the government website so that's probably why you missed them, who would have thought to look there?

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/working-saf ... 9/vehicles" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Objective: To maintain social distancing wherever possible between individuals when in vehicles:

avoid multiple occupancy vehicles where safe to do so

vehicles should not be shared if possible

if it is not possible to maintain social distancing guidelines inside vehicles (2m, or 1m with risk mitigation where 2m is not viable), consider additional safety measures

Steps that will usually be needed:

Keeping the number of people in the vehicle to a minimum and as distanced within the vehicle space as possible.

Devising mitigation measures where workers cannot maintain social distancing guidelines to minimise the risk of transmission, including:

– clear signage to outline social distancing measures in place
– single person or contactless refuelling where possible
– using physical screening, provided this does not compromise safety, for example, through reducing visibility
– sitting side-by-side not face-to-face and increasing ventilation where possible.

Using a fixed pairing system if workers have to be in close proximity, for example in a vehicle.

Making sure vehicles are well-ventilated to increase the flow of air, for example, by opening a window.

Ensure regular cleaning of vehicles, in particular between different users.

That's guidance, not rules. BIG difference.

[Woody Guthrie]

That's guidance, not rules. BIG difference.

Tell me then what the BIG difference is legally between not following the rules and not following the guidance?

Bearing in mind that the vast majority of H&S is guidance.

[k979aaa]

Even waring a mask your not supposed to be less than a meter apart so two in a van is dead in the water if the HSE or more the case a council official/COVID Marshall as Boris the COVID-19 brain damaged head. So I would not worry about this one bit there is a virus knocking about this year bit like a bad flu season like 1968 1957 or 1918 at very worst kind of thing which is bad.

[shaun2urz]

That's guidance, not rules. BIG difference.

Tell me then what the BIG difference is legally between not following the rules and not following the guidance?

Bearing in mind that the vast majority of H&S is guidance.

No idea mate, I'm not a lawyer, I'm just a bloke with an O Level in English Language. But what I can tell you is that guidance is advice, whereas rules should be adhered to.......which probably explains why the binmen can travel up to 3 in a cab.......legally.

[Woody Guthrie]

That's guidance, not rules. BIG difference.

Tell me then what the BIG difference is legally between not following the rules and not following the guidance?

Bearing in mind that the vast majority of H&S is guidance.

No idea mate, I'm not a lawyer, I'm just a bloke with an O Level in English Language. But what I can tell you is that guidance is advice, whereas rules should be adhered to.......which probably explains why the binmen can travel up to 3 in a cab.......legally.

It's the difference between criminal law and civil law.
You go to jail for an illegal act under criminal law, you get sued for an unlawful act under civil law.

Disregarding government rules can get you jailed, disregarding government guidelines can cost your business a great deal of money which is why your assertion that there is a BIG difference between rules and guidelines doesn't hold water from a business point of view.

If you put your staff at risk you risk the legal consequences, if you do so by wilfully ignoring government guidelines you double down on that risk.

[shaun2urz]

That's guidance, not rules. BIG difference.

Tell me then what the BIG difference is legally between not following the rules and not following the guidance?

Bearing in mind that the vast majority of H&S is guidance.

No idea mate, I'm not a lawyer, I'm just a bloke with an O Level in English Language. But what I can tell you is that guidance is advice, whereas rules should be adhered to.......which probably explains why the binmen can travel up to 3 in a cab.......legally.

It's the difference between criminal law and civil law.
You go to jail for an illegal act under criminal law, you get sued for an unlawful act under civil law.

Disregarding government rules can get you jailed, disregarding government guidelines can cost your business a great deal of money which is why your assertion that there is a BIG difference between rules and guidelines doesn't hold water from a business point of view.

If you put your staff at risk you risk the legal consequences, if you do so by wilfully ignoring government guidelines you double down on that risk.

So are you saying the bin companies are acting illegally? Or are they just 'doubling down on that risk'?