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Danelectro wrote:Its funny how now at a time when theres never been more anger and frustration in Royal Mail that its also never been harder to win the argument for any IA.somethings gotta give
The bullshit has to give Dan....
If the union wants to take us back into battle it has to be full-bloodied and the aims and objectives of that battle have to be clear and concise,achievable....and not up for negotiation.
The members will not fight to defend BTA that is obvious to most....so a clean break is necessary,it may well be what Royal Mail wants but it is virtually dead in the water as far as they are concerned anyway.
Above all the membership deserve an apology...an act of contrition,perhaps even a sacrifice or two for the greater good of the union....they will simply not follow the same generals to war again.
What bullshit exactaly has to give. Do you really think walking away from the agreement means that Royal Mail will simply not do anything ??? Does anyone believe that ? Does anyone believe that Royal Mail would have stood by and not introduced their business plan in 2009 simply cause we were taking strike action ? No the strikes forced them into an agreement on their business plan , they did not want one in the first place.
Look I am happy to walk away from the agreement if thats what people want , but does anyone think that will mean that Royal Mail will come to a halt where they stop their absorbtion , mail centre closures , delivery best praticse , world class mail"s or anyother plan ?
Now Numan you call me arrogant , I come on this site and probalby get blamed for everything from world hunger to Royal Mail. I dont bite and I still come on here. The other factor is unlike some of you and indeed senior managers of Royal Mail I go and meet the members I talk about and answer their questions. So thats why I say its water off a ducks back if you want to slag me off.
I can tell you what the members have said to me in the Mount , East and South London is the rest of the country going to wait till London and a few other areas have take 20 days of strike action before they join the battle and will other people do their work whist they are fighting for their futures. Lets be honest their were a lot of mail centres who did in 2009.
hubbahubba wrote:Not so much "Lions led by sheep",more "Lions led by the PIEd piper"................
Ok tell me I am all ears what would you do if your members were facing compulsory redundancies ? I dont hide management and CWU people know me on this site. I talk the talk if you want to pm lets discuss this further Fed up with silly comments you might sound big but some members you are refering to face the sack maybe you want to think about that before you post.
This is what dvbuk had to say on the National Briefing which took place on the 29/3/11. He made these comments on the 31/3/11.
dvbuk55 wrote:I am the unions worst critic because I believe they should have been more proactive in dealing with RMs duplicitous management instead of the appeasement that has been evident for a number of years. That has weakened the unions position and it is now critical that they make a stand, not over colleague shares, but over the callous way that RM have treated its workers across the land. If the CWU call a ballot I will rejoin immediately I am certain that this time it's for real, no interim agreements, no lip service to terms and conditions but a concerted attack on what has became a vicious managerial structure.
What about this statement you seem to have forgotten about it unless your up to no good
Bravery isn’t not being afraid. Bravery is being afraid but doing it anyway
Dingo, for somebody who is quick to dismiss other peoples attitudes and opinions on here you are very touchy when they do the same. The fact is that many people on here warned you that your agreement (not mine as I voted against it) would lead to this situation, you constantly poured cold water on any opposition. Not once have you, or any of the CWU hierarchy, apologised that you got it wrong. Yet here you are again trying to rally the troops. Now the cause is no doubt a just one but can you not see that many members do not trust your judgement or the CWU's ability to see the job through when the workforce back them? People who are unwilling to recognise and admit their past blunders usually end up making them again and again.
I will tell you what bullshit has to give dingo...
The idea that we can go to war with our employer over one issue(compulsory redundancies) and cosy up to them and turn a bind eye to others(the systematic bullying and harassment of members over the agreed revision process and IWT throughput testing).
That we can fight to preserve jobs but allow Royal Mail to turn those jobs into a misery.
That Royal Mail's business plan on which the BTA was built....does not work...that the use of trolleys designed to protect our members from the physical onslaught of a 4hr+ delivery has been sidelined because it is too costly without a peep from HQ...that capacity plans are now back on the menu without a peep from HQ...that unagreed savings plans are back on the menu without a peep from HQ...
The list is not exhaustive.
I must admit dingo you do take a lot of flak and I hold my hand up to doing my fair share of firing it. I have always said that you try your best for those you represent and that's to your credit. BUT and there's always a but, you defend the indefensible and toe the CWU party line regardless of its merit. I wouldn't say anyone was arrogant - opinionated maybe, there's nothing wrong in having an opinion, right or wrong.
Put aside the plight of the London MCs, which I know you are responsible for, however look at the wider picture for once and the 2010 agreement, which you advocated together with the PEC and the Leadership. The closures and modernisation were agreed and some prior to the conclusion of the agreement, the scale of which may not have been clear at the time but nevertheless are part and parcel of the modernisation plan.
I have asked many times what the answer to the CRs is given the scale of the movement of work and the understated take up of VRs. I don't think striking is the answer, it would certainly enable RM to speed up the movement of mail from inner London and could be done elsewhere. London would most definitely have to strike first before a national ballot was called, if it ever was called, the timescale for which could be lengthy. There are two things to calling for a ballot, persuading HQ to go down that road in view of the statement in the agreement that all avenues have to be explored and discussed first AND persuading the general membership that compulsory redundancies is an issue wider than three mail centres in London. I have to say that personally I don't believe it IS an issue that is likely to be nationwide.
rockytony67 wrote:This is what dvbuk had to say on the National Briefing which took place on the 29/3/11. He made these comments on the 31/3/11.
dvbuk55 wrote:I am the unions worst critic because I believe they should have been more proactive in dealing with RMs duplicitous management instead of the appeasement that has been evident for a number of years. That has weakened the unions position and it is now critical that they make a stand, not over colleague shares, but over the callous way that RM have treated its workers across the land. If the CWU call a ballot I will rejoin immediately I am certain that this time it's for real, no interim agreements, no lip service to terms and conditions but a concerted attack on what has became a vicious managerial structure.
What about this statement you seem to have forgotten about it unless your up to no good
I must admit rocky, I thought you were a little too young for dementia, but I believe you have quoted that previously and as I pointed out before, it WAS across the land and not over three MCs in London, which is NOT a national issue believe it or not. Best get the matron to up your medication or the landlord to lessen it
rockytony67 wrote:This is what dvbuk had to say on the National Briefing which took place on the 29/3/11. He made these comments on the 31/3/11.
dvbuk55 wrote:I am the unions worst critic because I believe they should have been more proactive in dealing with RMs duplicitous management instead of the appeasement that has been evident for a number of years. That has weakened the unions position and it is now critical that they make a stand, not over colleague shares, but over the callous way that RM have treated its workers across the land. If the CWU call a ballot I will rejoin immediately I am certain that this time it's for real, no interim agreements, no lip service to terms and conditions but a concerted attack on what has became a vicious managerial structure.
What about this statement you seem to have forgotten about it unless your up to no good
I must admit rocky, I thought you were a little too young for dementia, but I believe you have quoted that previously and as I pointed out before, it WAS across the land and not over three MCs in London, which is NOT a national issue believe it or not. Best get the matron to up your medication or the landlord to lessen it
No mate not got dementia I will post this every time you make a comment on strike action just to show what a fraud you are by the way if you don't think the possiblity of compulsory redundancy is not a national issue it's you who need the medication
Bravery isn’t not being afraid. Bravery is being afraid but doing it anyway
rockytony67 wrote:This is what dvbuk had to say on the National Briefing which took place on the 29/3/11. He made these comments on the 31/3/11.
dvbuk55 wrote:I am the unions worst critic because I believe they should have been more proactive in dealing with RMs duplicitous management instead of the appeasement that has been evident for a number of years. That has weakened the unions position and it is now critical that they make a stand, not over colleague shares, but over the callous way that RM have treated its workers across the land. If the CWU call a ballot I will rejoin immediately I am certain that this time it's for real, no interim agreements, no lip service to terms and conditions but a concerted attack on what has became a vicious managerial structure.
What about this statement you seem to have forgotten about it unless your up to no good
I must admit rocky, I thought you were a little too young for dementia, but I believe you have quoted that previously and as I pointed out before, it WAS across the land and not over three MCs in London, which is NOT a national issue believe it or not. Best get the matron to up your medication or the landlord to lessen it
No mate not got dementia I will post this every time you make a comment on strike action just to show what a fraud you are by the way if you don't think the possiblity of compulsory redundancy is not a national issue it's you who need the medication
Strange that compulsory redundancy didn't seem to be a national issue when the agreement was signed - because it doesn't say that there will be NO compulsory redundancies rocky - what it does say is that they will try to be avoided.....................and that is NOT the same as NONE...........
The draconian management hasn't changed since the agreement and should the union make an issue of all the failings of this agreement and not a single issue which WAS agreed and affects a minority at this stage but may well affect others in the future but was still agreed then my statement stands.
rockytony67 wrote:This is what dvbuk had to say on the National Briefing which took place on the 29/3/11. He made these comments on the 31/3/11.
dvbuk55 wrote:I am the unions worst critic because I believe they should have been more proactive in dealing with RMs duplicitous management instead of the appeasement that has been evident for a number of years. That has weakened the unions position and it is now critical that they make a stand, not over colleague shares, but over the callous way that RM have treated its workers across the land. If the CWU call a ballot I will rejoin immediately I am certain that this time it's for real, no interim agreements, no lip service to terms and conditions but a concerted attack on what has became a vicious managerial structure.
What about this statement you seem to have forgotten about it unless your up to no good
I must admit rocky, I thought you were a little too young for dementia, but I believe you have quoted that previously and as I pointed out before, it WAS across the land and not over three MCs in London, which is NOT a national issue believe it or not. Best get the matron to up your medication or the landlord to lessen it
No mate not got dementia I will post this every time you make a comment on strike action just to show what a fraud you are by the way if you don't think the possiblity of compulsory redundancy is not a national issue it's you who need the medication
Strange that compulsory redundancy didn't seem to be a national issue when the agreement was signed - because it doesn't say that there will be NO compulsory redundancies rocky - what it does say is that they will try to be avoided.....................and that is NOT the same as NONE...........
The draconian management hasn't changed since the agreement and should the union make an issue of all the failings of this agreement and not a single issue which WAS agreed and affects a minority at this stage but may well affect others in the future but was still agreed then my statement stands.
Thanks for that maybe you better give us some examples of what issue's would make you rejoin the union and strike because we don't want any confusion by the way have you thought about entering next years Olympics you'd make a great backstroke swimmer
Bravery isn’t not being afraid. Bravery is being afraid but doing it anyway
hubbahubba wrote:Not so much "Lions led by sheep",more "Lions led by the PIEd piper"................
Ok tell me I am all ears what would you do if your members were facing compulsory redundancies ? I dont hide management and CWU people know me on this site. I talk the talk if you want to pm lets discuss this further Fed up with silly comments you might sound big but some members you are refering to face the sack maybe you want to think about that before you post.
I thought it was quite obvious i was refering to big billy with the above post,but maybe that went over your head?
As for the compulsory redundancies,i have already said earlier in the thread i would be on the picket line if IA was voted for,as i have been plenty of times before!
You call it a silly comment?Maybe it is,maybe it isn't-its all about opinions at the end of the day,but i tell you something that was bloody silly,and that was making an agreement with RM with so many loopholes in it that you could drive a 600 through them!
Well rocky, like many on here, you see what you want to see and not the reality of the situation.
As for issues that should be addressed, bullying, harassment, unfair testing of established procedures, non involvement in planning, reneging on payment for revisions, ignoring weight off the shoulder issues, all agreed procedures which have been ignored - you will notice I have not mentioned compulsory redundancies rocky because that is in the agreement had anyone cared to read it.
you seem to have forgotten about it 
unless your up to no good 
by the way have you thought about entering next years Olympics 