Unions pledge to resist Royal Mail privatisation

[Martin Walsh]

Bullshit ?? It wont cost the Government anything to take on the defcit its an accountancy trick.Remember the defcit is only there if everyone was to retire on the same day. The law and trustees ensure that Royal Mail has a payment plan in place. However the Government can give either a crown guarantee or a similar committment which means they dont have to lay out any money.

What they need to do to sell the industry is to make sure its viable thats why they will resolve the defcit , thats why they will reform post comm , thats why they will give concessions on the access price headroom .

Equally your forgetting one crucial issue they get to have the assets of our pension scheme 26 billion which can be the biggest repayment in the governments plan to reduce government borrowing. The only trouble its what we have paid in and what the trustees have decided to invest in. Its our money not the governments.

Now as someone who was in the minority of branch`s in the UK who argued we should have been balloted and spoke and argued for that at a number of briefing and debates, the fact is that at the Northampton briefing apart from London no other region in the UK was supporting that arguement.

To be fair at the time the North West were starting their campaign against their mail centre clousres and a number of other areas who had agreed peagsus revisions despite the national postion of that time of no agreement to geo route revisons had agreed them and were having problems.

In my view the union should have fought over the ending of the final salery scheme.We did not and the bus I am afaid has gone when you look at the Hutton report and the governments actions.

However what privatisation will mean is a further attack on our pensions and benefits. So you have decided to wave the white flag fair enough that is your decision.

Dont worry some of us will fight and lead a campagin to stop them and you can look on , and be a nutural. Dnt feel smug thou as it will be your pension which gets f****d if we lose.

In my view I have had many busts up with Royal Mail and arguements with the union but there is only one enemy and there is only one organistion which will support you.

[belle smith]

Bullshit ?? It wont cost the Government anything to take on the defcit its an accountancy trick.Remember the defcit is only there if everyone was to retire on the same day. The law and trustees ensure that Royal Mail has a payment plan in place. However the Government can give either a crown guarantee or a similar committment which means they dont have to lay out any money.

Well thats NOT 'winding up' the scheme then Dingo. Winding up means somthing very specific it means you pay an insurrance company to take over the the liabilities of the pension scheme and you pay up front That means paying up the deficit and not the one quoted in the accounts, with the 'discounted' liabilities.
So when you say the will wind up the scheme then that IS bullshit!
The very last thing the goverment wants is the scheme wound up.

What the goverment are propsing to do is retrospectivly change the scheme to a pay as you go scheme. this envolves opting out of the exisiting pension regulations as well as most likely rendering part of the trust deed and rules invalid. are the union asking for a judicial review, i'll bet not.

What they need to do to sell the industry is to make sure its viable thats why they will resolve the defcit , thats why they will reform post comm , thats why they will give concessions on the access price headroom .

except the deficit yes. THEY need the deficit resolved anyway. The goverment can't afford to have a company it owns default on a debt to it's creditors, and thats what it would be legally if the pension scheme bankrupted RM. how much more do you think they would have to pay on borrowing

Equally your forgetting one crucial issue they get to have the assets of our pension scheme 26 billion which can be the biggest repayment in the governments plan to reduce government borrowing. The only trouble its what we have paid in and what the trustees have decided to invest in. Its our money not the governments.

Yep again they are breaking the rules to suit themselfs....the union should ask for a judicial review.

Now as someone who was in the minority of branch`s in the UK who argued we should have been balloted and spoke and argued for that at a number of briefing and debates, the fact is that at the Northampton briefing apart from London no other region in the UK was supporting that arguement.

To be fair at the time the North West were starting their campaign against their mail centre clousres and a number of other areas who had agreed peagsus revisions despite the national postion of that time of no agreement to geo route revisons had agreed them and were having problems.

In my view the union should have fought over the ending of the final salery scheme.We did not and the bus I am afaid has gone when you look at the Hutton report and the governments actions.

However what privatisation will mean is a further attack on our pensions and benefits. So you have decided to wave the white flag fair enough that is your decision.

Your right we should go on strike and then have our leaders wave the white flag with you cheering on ....like the last 2 times 3 if you count the pension.

Dont worry some of us will fight and lead a campagin to stop them and you can look on , and be a nutural. Dnt feel smug thou as it will be your pension which gets f****d if we lose.

In my view I have had many busts up with Royal Mail and arguements with the union but there is only one enemy and there is only one organistion which will support you.

It's not that i'm opposed to striking for our T & C ....i don't trust you's

[Martin Walsh]

Belle smith you dont know me and I dont represent you so how do you know you dont trust me !! Change the record !!

Now where your missing the point that only Royal Mail are being sold off , Post Office ltd will stay publicaly owned. Now the pension scheme will have to be split to deal with that issue so the pension has to be reviewed and thats where the problem comes.

Now you might hate the union fair enough but thats the problem ! Dont pretend it is not a threat , it might make you feel better in the short term but it will still mean your pension will get smashed if we dont stop their plans.

[belle smith]

Belle smith you dont know me and I dont represent you so how do you know you dont trust me !! Change the record !!

I'm basing that on your support for the last 2 deals that you were in favour of.

Now where your missing the point that only Royal Mail are being sold off , Post Office ltd will stay publicaly owned. Now the pension scheme will have to be split to deal with that issue so the pension has to be reviewed and thats where the problem comes.

What does Post office remaining publicly owend have to do with anything what point am i missing because that looks to me irrelavent.
just read that again your suggesting further cuts to our pension.

Now you might hate the union fair enough but thats the problem ! Dont pretend it is not a threat , it might make you feel better in the short term but it will still mean your pension will get smashed if we dont stop their plans.

No it won't. please explain how you think it will.

[dvbuk55]

Actually dingo it's the members who do the supporting.

It must be wonderful to have a selective memory like yours.

You see I see the situation differently, as I recall, at the time, the CWU trumpeted the "successful decoupling of the pensions issue from the 2007 Pay and Modernisation agreement". Up until now it has remained "decoupled" until you wheeled it out as of paramount importance now that privatisation is upon us.
Other unions are now determined to fight for what we had to put up with 3 years ago.

Whilst your on though dingo, did we not hear mention of a re-organisation of union affairs under this latest agreement..................how's it going?

[belle smith]

Will this review make a distiction between POPS and POSSS? Or are we still going with the whole thing being unaffoarable.

[postiered]

to all those muppets who voted Fib Dems and conservative or couldnt be arsed to even vote look what you thickos have got !!!!! a coalition who will privatise us because havnt enough seats in parliament to oppose it. A union who is not bothered to put up a decent fight against privatisation , and a ignorant workforce who dont know wots going on

[Martin Walsh]

Dvbuk bore somebody else , your opinion is not worth an answer in any case you choose to be out of the union so dont deserve an answer from a union rep.

Belle the fact that Pol will split from the rest of the group will mean that the pension has to be reviewed. Think that quadrant and romec have both change the pension benefits when they got sold off. The impact from this split if the Lib Cons plans go ahead will have an affect , the level of that affect we will have to see.

Certainly the unions pension advice is it could be massive but lets wait and see.

The other red herring is that the other unions are going to fight it , well I hope they do because they all had an agreement with the Labour party which meant their final salary scheme was protected provided the scheme became a closed scheme. Alan Johnson the then Labour Minster done that deal and its a disgrace that is been ended.

[belle smith]

to all those muppets who voted Fib Dems and conservative or couldnt be arsed to even vote look what you thickos have got !!!!! a coalition who will privatise us because havnt enough seats in parliament to oppose it. A union who is not bothered to put up a decent fight against privatisation , and a ignorant workforce who dont know wots going on

Sounds like the union does want to fight this.
who's ignorant?

[belle smith]

will attempet to be constructive here dingo.
Hoppers latest claim that the deficit has trebbled since 2008 is a gross misreprasentation. Happy to provide you with evidence of that (not tonight though). but sampson and browne are complicit in that misrepresentation.

If the public 'deserves' somthing for taking on the pension liabilities you would think it would be those responsable for the wreckless running of the POSSS scheme being held to account hopper appears not to think so.

[postiered]

it seems only a few activists in union are fighting Ktpp campaign the rest of the posties are only bothered rushing around in cars to finish their deliveries

[postiered]

what we have to worry about is privatisation , which will mean 1000's of job losses

[fishtank]

Dingo no matter which way you spin it the union missed the boat on our pensions and many members are rightly still bitter over this.
Now you know,i know and the majority of members know that this "fight" is primarily about privatisation not pensions.
Yes...we know that privatisation will most likely have a detrimental effect on our pension and that in itself may be a good enough reason to fight but we are all adults and do not appreciate a clumsy attempt to pull the wool over our eyes.
A little honesty goes a long way.......

[belle smith]

it seems only a few activists in union are fighting Ktpp campaign the rest of the posties are only bothered rushing around in cars to finish their deliveries

The runners are to blame for much but privitisation.....sorry thats a stretch.

[postiered]

the last agreement we were sold down the river , why cant we be like the GMB, Unison or Unite proper unions who realise what the cuts will do to this country