£ 900

[milly]

The experts in Royal Mail's pension position are the trustees and their advisors and if they have decided with all the proper facts to hand that the escrow account is unnecessary I defer to their expertise over a retired postie.

The argument over "family silver" is simplistic and shows a complete lack of understanding in how Royal Mail's funding obligation works.

It makes just as much sense to say that any money they give us in any pay deal is the "family silver" since it is all just cash on the balance sheet.

I'm kind of disappointment in your selfish attitude Robert, active members need financial help now, you may not have any interest in this deal and are only worried about your own pension but the vast majority of us do not wish to see that money rotting away in an escrow account until Royal Mail see fit to do what they want with it.

I see you are using the fallacious "appeal to authority" argument.
The Trustees aren't experts on anything and are just as useless as those other experts at the Bank of England.
I take it you never think that your line manager ever gets things wrong because they are in a position of authority and know far more than a mere Postman.
I have been warning for ages that our Pension isn't safe!
As Gilt yields rise the value of our Pension goes down.
I wonder who will be correct? me a no nothing Postman or those highly intelligent experts on the board of Trustees
Cue the usual conspiracy theory name-calling

[renrag40]

Hello Milly, how lovely to hear from you again.
The present value and yield of gilts becomes irrelevant IF the gilt is held maturity.
The problem for most if not all DB pension funds with the last sentence is the word "IF". The imperative to achieve 7% yield, to cover future liabilities, is what has lead to the use of leveraged derivatives being used in the bond market by DB pension funds.
However, given that our DB pension is the government's responsibility to pay given that Chancellor Osbourne sold all the assets in the RMSPS to pay off a portion of the National Debt I wouldn't be concerned about the movements in the bond markets. Unless of course the government declares bankruptcy, in which case everybody will be up s**t creek without a paddle.
RMPP is a career average scheme and though it is a derivative DB scheme it does not have the same uncertainty regarding future liabilities as a "pure" DB scheme. Therefore it does not have the same need to achieve the 7% yield to cover its long term liabilities. As we found out last year they were using leveraged derivatives to drive up yield but not to anywhere near the same extent as a DB schemes. So, though they weren't effect to the same extent as DB schemes and had the required funds available to cover a margin call.
Personally, I won't be losing any sleep about the safety of our pensions.

[milly]

Hello Milly, how lovely to hear from you again.
The present value and yield of gilts becomes irrelevant IF the gilt is held maturity.
The problem for most if not all DB pension funds with the last sentence is the word "IF". The imperative to achieve 7% yield, to cover future liabilities, is what has lead to the use of leveraged derivatives being used in the bond market by DB pension funds.
However, given that our DB pension is the government's responsibility to pay given that Chancellor Osbourne sold all the assets in the RMSPS to pay off a portion of the National Debt I wouldn't be concerned about the movements in the bond markets. Unless of course the government declares bankruptcy, in which case everybody will be up s**t creek without a paddle.
RMPP is a career average scheme and though it is a derivative DB scheme it does not have the same uncertainty regarding future liabilities as a "pure" DB scheme. Therefore it does not have the same need to achieve the 7% yield to cover its long term liabilities. As we found out last year they were using leveraged derivatives to drive up yield but not to anywhere near the same extent as a DB schemes. So, though they weren't effect to the same extent as DB schemes and had the required funds available to cover a margin call.
Personally, I won't be losing any sleep about the safety of our pensions.

The Final Salary Scheme is dependent on the UK Government's credit worthiness which isn't great.
The Pension WILL be paid out, however I doubt it will have any purchasing power as the Government will not default it will just simply inflate away their debt.
So in a nutshell our Pension isn't safe at all.

[Woody Guthrie]

A little learning is a dang’rous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely sobers us again.

Alexander Pope
‘An Essay on Criticism’

[milly]

A little learning is a dang’rous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely sobers us again.

Alexander Pope
‘An Essay on Criticism’

Is that in reference to yourself

[Woody Guthrie]

It's a reference to all Milly.

I live by Bertrand Russell's four maxims.

The first is: remember that your motives are not always as altruistic as they seem to yourself.
The second is: don't over-estimate your own merits.
The third is: don't expect others to take as much interest in you as you do yourself.
And the fourth is: don't imagine that most people give enough thought to you to have any special desire to persecute you.

[milly]

It's a reference to all Milly.

I live by Bertrand Russell's four maxims.

The first is: remember that your motives are not always as altruistic as they seem to yourself.
The second is: don't over-estimate your own merits.
The third is: don't expect others to take as much interest in you as you do yourself.
And the fourth is: don't imagine that most people give enough thought to you to have any special desire to persecute you.

Try debating my arguments instead of making personal attacks

[Woody Guthrie]

I humbly refer you to the fourth maxim.

[renrag40]

Are you always this combatative towards people Milly?
Is it the insomnia from constantly worrying about perilous position your pension is in that causes this aggression?
Stop worrying about things that are highly unlikely to happen. Life is too short.

[milly]

Are you always this combatative towards people Milly?
Is it the insomnia from constantly worrying about perilous position your pension is in that causes this aggression?
Stop worrying about things that are highly unlikely to happen. Life is too short.

Not aggressive in the slightest I have transferred much of my Pension and my AVC's into a private Pension, so I am doing what I can to mitigate the situation.
Maybe you are so wealthy that losing your Pension is no biggie,unfortunately I'm not in that situation.
Possibly you could allay my fears by telling me why our Pension won't fail.

[milly]

I humbly refer you to the fourth maxim.

You don't care what I say but still feel strangely compelled to reply

[Woody Guthrie]

I humbly refer you to the fourth maxim.

You don't care what I say but still feel strangely compelled to reply

You must have misunderstood the fourth maxim.
You accused me of personal attacks.
The fourth maxim alludes to the fact that I simply don't give enough thought to you to have any special desire to persecute you.
It doesn't forbid me from replying.
The dancing banana is cute though.

[milly]

I humbly refer you to the fourth maxim.

You don't care what I say but still feel strangely compelled to reply

You must have misunderstood the fourth maxim.
You accused me of personal attacks.
The fourth maxim alludes to the fact that I simply don't give enough thought to you to have any special desire to persecute you.
It doesn't forbid me from replying.
The dancing banana is cute though.

So the Bertrand Russell maxim wasn't a sleight against my character?
Which in and of itself is a form of persecution is it not?

[renrag40]

Are you always this combatative towards people Milly?
Is it the insomnia from constantly worrying about perilous position your pension is in that causes this aggression?
Stop worrying about things that are highly unlikely to happen. Life is too short.

Not aggressive in the slightest I have transferred much of my Pension and my AVC's into a private Pension, so I am doing what I can to mitigate the situation.
Maybe you are so wealthy that losing your Pension is no biggie,unfortunately I'm not in that situation.
Possibly you could allay my fears by telling me why our Pension won't fail.

Why bother you are a closed mind wrapped in your Doomsday theories that you have convince yourself are going to happen. If, in the most unlikeliest event that they do come true putting you pension in a SIPP won't be of much use we will be all up s**t creek without a paddle.

[milly]

Are you always this combatative towards people Milly?
Is it the insomnia from constantly worrying about perilous position your pension is in that causes this aggression?
Stop worrying about things that are highly unlikely to happen. Life is too short.

Not aggressive in the slightest I have transferred much of my Pension and my AVC's into a private Pension, so I am doing what I can to mitigate the situation.
Maybe you are so wealthy that losing your Pension is no biggie,unfortunately I'm not in that situation.
Possibly you could allay my fears by telling me why our Pension won't fail.

Why bother you are a closed mind wrapped in your Doomsday theories that you have convince yourself are going to happen. If, in the most unlikeliest event that they do come true putting you pension in a SIPP won't be of much use we will be all up s**t creek without a paddle.

Convince me why it won't happen!
Convince me why it's okay for the Government to borrow £20 billion a month to cover it's spending!
I'm pretty amazed that you think things are okay what with interest rates sky rocketing and inflation out of control.
Maybe my investments will go down but I'm pretty happy that my Sipp has zero exposure to Government debt.
I look forward to your hypothesis of why I'm wrong and how everything is fine, it will be much appreciated if you could reply without the usual personal attacks.