Thank you for taking the time to monitor the posts and especially respond to them and this one in particular.
You say this issue only affects 20% of the workforce. I disagree. maybe 20% over one year, but what about the next year or over the course of a life-time? There are 100,000 heart attacks in the UK every year. That is 0.15% of the UK's population affected every year. Imagine if the government turned around and said "we don't need to fund specialist surgeons/emergency response/public health education because it affects such a small amount of the population." such a position would be deemed as inept short-term planning. For all those posties who are under 40 and there bodies are holding up until now - you should be advocating for them too - even though they likely form a large part of the 80% with one sick absence per year - because in the years to come a sizeable proportion of them with suffer ill health due to body breaking down.
Regards your points 1. through 5. While it is good that you negotiated less harsh terms, I would say that you could and should have negotiated a good deal harder. And especially with IHR. For me, and with no vested personal issue but advocating for all, IHR, much more than SSP should have been a red line. Getting between 12 and 18 weeks pay after giving perhaps 30 -45 years effort is a very poor compensation for flogging our bodies in a health-detrimental work place. Those colleagues who busted a gut for all those years and then are unfit to work get a pat on the pack and 3-4 month's pay - what are they supposed to do with that?
CWU needs to put it's thinking caps on and come up with suggestions when around the negotiating table. Colleagues pulling sickies is an issue. Colleagues skiving off for months on end is a disaster for RM finances and affects all the rest of us as in these new policies.
£200 million is a horrendous figure but I can see it because its the people who are off long term sick who cost so much. I would advocate that R.M buys group income protection or similar to offset this cost https://www.metlife.co.uk/intermediary/ ... %20period.
Regards all health and mental health in particular I would advocate early intervention. Once a person is depressed it's difficult to treat them - there is quite good support but it probably needs to be promoted better. Maybe more health checks for new employees. Orthopedic specialists doing checkups and interventions on staff. If one expert checks 4 people a day that is a 1000 per year. Could have a checkup every two years. meaning perhaps a team of 60 specialists needed to check every body every 2 years. A team of 60 specialist might be needed. Would cost maybe £3 million per year - it should easily pay for itself. Union should be suggesting these things. If they already are, apologies, but I'm unaware of such initiatives.
The point is, CWU were in a dispute for a year. Around the negotiating table, on and off, for months. There was plenty of time to advocate solutions PRIOR to making an agreement than to backslide and put in clauses, paraphrasing, about "working parties will be formed to discuss" What incentive has either R.M or CWU to form working parties after the agreement has already been signed off?
You make some good points.
However, one of the main reasons why colleagues may pull one or two day sickies is because they know they can't get a day off when they want it. Often they will put in an annual leave request that has been refused in the past or have tried to swap shifts with someone to no avail. So a better system of flexibility is needed. But it's the staff who have been on sick for months or even years on end who must surely be the biggest drain on Royal Mail sick pay. I'm guessing that a company has looked at these sorts of insurance policies especially if they are losing millions due to sick absence?
Royal Mail are attacking the symptoms by reducing sick pay rather than addressing the causes of why staff go on sick in the first place. Bigger outdoor duties and the impact that it has on our physical and mental health has been completely overlooked in this deal. We will be expected to work even more hours in the winter so all that good work that past agreements have made in reducing our hours down from 40 to 37 has been for nothing. And yet RM want to look at reducing indoor time even further with frameless offices. What ever happened to the shorter working week that the Union have been promising for years?
On the face of it, shareholder value is the dumbest idea in the world.
Everything about this deal stinks to high heaven. The whole CWU - CORRUPT, WASTEFUL , UNDERHANDED should resign inc PEC.
Martin Walsh should stop his propaganda crap. It's getting boring. " We have negotiated this and that . We have saved you from hell . If you vote yes , administration will suck you all into oblivion " . Blah blah blah. This reeks of desperation to frighten us into being obedient thoughtless clones.
Against what the union thinks - we are not as stupid, unintelligent and naive as they would like to believe. The union has forgotten a very long time that they WORK for US not the other way round. They are our mouthpiece not our boss. We are their paymasters not their puppets.
They are instigating fear - but the real fear is them losing their luxurious perks and lavish lifestyle .Having to actually work for a living.
By voting NO , at least my conscience is clear.
Thank you for taking the time to monitor the posts and especially respond to them and this one in particular.
You say this issue only affects 20% of the workforce. I disagree. maybe 20% over one year, but what about the next year or over the course of a life-time? There are 100,000 heart attacks in the UK every year. That is 0.15% of the UK's population affected every year. Imagine if the government turned around and said "we don't need to fund specialist surgeons/emergency response/public health education because it affects such a small amount of the population." such a position would be deemed as inept short-term planning. For all those posties who are under 40 and there bodies are holding up until now - you should be advocating for them too - even though they likely form a large part of the 80% with one sick absence per year - because in the years to come a sizeable proportion of them with suffer ill health due to body breaking down.
Regards your points 1. through 5. While it is good that you negotiated less harsh terms, I would say that you could and should have negotiated a good deal harder. And especially with IHR. For me, and with no vested personal issue but advocating for all, IHR, much more than SSP should have been a red line. Getting between 12 and 18 weeks pay after giving perhaps 30 -45 years effort is a very poor compensation for flogging our bodies in a health-detrimental work place. Those colleagues who busted a gut for all those years and then are unfit to work get a pat on the pack and 3-4 month's pay - what are they supposed to do with that?
CWU needs to put it's thinking caps on and come up with suggestions when around the negotiating table. Colleagues pulling sickies is an issue. Colleagues skiving off for months on end is a disaster for RM finances and affects all the rest of us as in these new policies.
£200 million is a horrendous figure but I can see it because its the people who are off long term sick who cost so much. I would advocate that R.M buys group income protection or similar to offset this cost https://www.metlife.co.uk/intermediary/ ... %20period.
Regards all health and mental health in particular I would advocate early intervention. Once a person is depressed it's difficult to treat them - there is quite good support but it probably needs to be promoted better. Maybe more health checks for new employees. Orthopedic specialists doing checkups and interventions on staff. If one expert checks 4 people a day that is a 1000 per year. Could have a checkup every two years. meaning perhaps a team of 60 specialists needed to check every body every 2 years. A team of 60 specialist might be needed. Would cost maybe £3 million per year - it should easily pay for itself. Union should be suggesting these things. If they already are, apologies, but I'm unaware of such initiatives.
The point is, CWU were in a dispute for a year. Around the negotiating table, on and off, for months. There was plenty of time to advocate solutions PRIOR to making an agreement than to backslide and put in clauses, paraphrasing, about "working parties will be formed to discuss" What incentive has either R.M or CWU to form working parties after the agreement has already been signed off?
You make some good points.
However, one of the main reasons why colleagues may pull one or two day sickies is because they know they can't get a day off when they want it. Often they will put in an annual leave request that has been refused in the past or have tried to swap shifts with someone to no avail. So a better system of flexibility is needed. But it's the staff who have been on sick for months or even years on end who must surely be the biggest drain on Royal Mail sick pay. I'm guessing that a company has looked at these sorts of insurance policies especially if they are losing millions due to sick absence?
Royal Mail are attacking the symptoms by reducing sick pay rather than addressing the causes of why staff go on sick in the first place. Bigger outdoor duties and the impact that it has on our physical and mental health has been completely overlooked in this deal. We will be expected to work even more hours in the winter so all that good work that past agreements have made in reducing our hours down from 40 to 37 has been for nothing. And yet RM want to look at reducing indoor time even further with frameless offices. What ever happened to the shorter working week that the Union have been promising for years?
How is staff on months or year,s the problem ffs they are on long time sick for a reason an don,t get paid if off for 1year in 4 years.have you read the cancer thread might open your eyes
Everything about this deal stinks to high heaven. The whole CWU - CORRUPT, WASTEFUL , UNDERHANDED should resign inc PEC.
Martin Walsh should stop his propaganda crap. It's getting boring. " We have negotiated this and that . We have saved you from hell . If you vote yes , administration will suck you all into oblivion " . Blah blah blah. This reeks of desperation to frighten us into being obedient thoughtless clones.
Against what the union thinks - we are not as stupid, unintelligent and naive as they would like to believe. The union has forgotten a very long time that they WORK for US not the other way round. They are our mouthpiece not our boss. We are their paymasters not their puppets.
They are instigating fear - but the real fear is them losing their luxurious perks and lavish lifestyle .Having to actually work for a living.
By voting NO , at least my conscience is clear.
Royal Mail are attacking the symptoms by reducing sick pay rather than addressing the causes of why staff go on sick in the first place. Bigger outdoor duties and the impact that it has on our physical and mental health has been completely overlooked in this deal. We will be expected to work even more hours in the winter so all that good work that past agreements have made in reducing our hours down from 40 to 37 has been for nothing. And yet RM want to look at reducing indoor time even further with frameless offices. What ever happened to the shorter working week that the Union have been promising for years?
I think the long term goal of RM is to have delivery staff spending virtually the whole of their shifts out delivering
Everything about this deal stinks to high heaven. The whole CWU - CORRUPT, WASTEFUL , UNDERHANDED should resign inc PEC.
Martin Walsh should stop his propaganda crap. It's getting boring. " We have negotiated this and that . We have saved you from hell . If you vote yes , administration will suck you all into oblivion " . Blah blah blah. This reeks of desperation to frighten us into being obedient thoughtless clones.
Against what the union thinks - we are not as stupid, unintelligent and naive as they would like to believe. The union has forgotten a very long time that they WORK for US not the other way round. They are our mouthpiece not our boss. We are their paymasters not their puppets.
They are instigating fear - but the real fear is them losing their luxurious perks and lavish lifestyle .Having to actually work for a living.
By voting NO , at least my conscience is clear.
Will def vote yes after reading that crap
I will vote no , it is true the CWU have sold us out with this awful deal to protect themselves .
Royal Mail are attacking the symptoms by reducing sick pay rather than addressing the causes of why staff go on sick in the first place. Bigger outdoor duties and the impact that it has on our physical and mental health has been completely overlooked in this deal. We will be expected to work even more hours in the winter so all that good work that past agreements have made in reducing our hours down from 40 to 37 has been for nothing. And yet RM want to look at reducing indoor time even further with frameless offices. What ever happened to the shorter working week that the Union have been promising for years?
I think the long term goal of RM is to have delivery staff spending virtually the whole of their shifts out delivering
That’s one of their long-term goals - the other is to force out the staff who are on the more favourable T&Cs by making deliveries impossible. Then they’ll have a fully flexible, non-unionised workforce, on crappy sick pay. The churn of staff will be great, the pressure relentless, but the profits will flow.
How is staff on months or year,s the problem ffs they are on long time sick for a reason an don,t get paid if off for 1year in 4 years.have you read the cancer thread might open your eyes
Those on long term sick are considered a problem to the company because they want to do away with IHR.
You obviously agree with this because you're voting for these changes.
On the face of it, shareholder value is the dumbest idea in the world.
Everything about this deal stinks to high heaven. The whole CWU - CORRUPT, WASTEFUL , UNDERHANDED should resign inc PEC.
Martin Walsh should stop his propaganda crap. It's getting boring. " We have negotiated this and that . We have saved you from hell . If you vote yes , administration will suck you all into oblivion " . Blah blah blah. This reeks of desperation to frighten us into being obedient thoughtless clones.
Against what the union thinks - we are not as stupid, unintelligent and naive as they would like to believe. The union has forgotten a very long time that they WORK for US not the other way round. They are our mouthpiece not our boss. We are their paymasters not their puppets.
They are instigating fear - but the real fear is them losing their luxurious perks and lavish lifestyle .Having to actually work for a living.
By voting NO , at least my conscience is clear.
Will def vote yes after reading that crap
I will vote no , it is true the CWU have sold us out with this awful deal to protect themselves .
I'm surprised at Martin peddling the administration nonsense. This year we expect to make record losses, however, in the 5 years before the pandemic Royal Mail has been profitable. All this scaremongering has to stop. It's the same rhetoric that Leighton and Crozier made years ago that we are losing a million pounds a day and if it was honestly the case, why are we still in business?
What Royal Mail are good at is cooking the books. After all these revisions that have made duties bigger, not paying overtime to get frames clear, putting the price of postage up, failing the USO, decommissioning vans and yet parcel volumes are still bonkers. Just think how much more RM are going to save when we are working one and half million extra hours for the 15 weeks of winter and reducing sick absence. New starts on less money, terms and conditions will obviously help us towards the gig economy. In 2 years time hopefully all those who are 40% overpaid get fed up and leave and that will be when parcel automation kicks in and we all start and finish later with that last letter time enshrined in this deal occurs (in spite of what they will say about individual offices finishing times) and we will get even bigger duties.
On the face of it, shareholder value is the dumbest idea in the world.
How is staff on months or year,s the problem ffs they are on long time sick for a reason an don,t get paid if off for 1year in 4 years.have you read the cancer thread might open your eyes
Those on long term sick are considered a problem to the company because they want to do away with IHR.
You obviously agree with this because you're voting for these changes.
Where have they said they are doing away with ihr.its in the agreement its down to 16 weeks so not doing away with it. i don't like it being cut but hardly worth voting no over it.
How is staff on months or year,s the problem ffs they are on long time sick for a reason an don,t get paid if off for 1year in 4 years.have you read the cancer thread might open your eyes
Those on long term sick are considered a problem to the company because they want to do away with IHR.
You obviously agree with this because you're voting for these changes.
Where have they said they are doing away with ihr.its in the agreement its down to 16 weeks so not doing away with it. i don't like it being cut but hardly worth voting no over it.
It is worth voting no as it is a cut in our terms and conditions ,
We do not all give in to bullies like you do aiden .
How is staff on months or year,s the problem ffs they are on long time sick for a reason an don,t get paid if off for 1year in 4 years.have you read the cancer thread might open your eyes
Those on long term sick are considered a problem to the company because they want to do away with IHR.
You obviously agree with this because you're voting for these changes.
Where have they said they are doing away with ihr.its in the agreement its down to 16 weeks so not doing away with it. i don't like it being cut but hardly worth voting no over it.
It is worth voting no as it is a cut in our terms and conditions ,
We do not all give in to bullies like you do aiden .
In what way are we being bullied. we are being asked to vote on an agreement between cwu an rm its simply a yes or no.. no bullying involved.
How is staff on months or year,s the problem ffs they are on long time sick for a reason an don,t get paid if off for 1year in 4 years.have you read the cancer thread might open your eyes
Those on long term sick are considered a problem to the company because they want to do away with IHR.
You obviously agree with this because you're voting for these changes.
Where have they said they are doing away with ihr.its in the agreement its down to 16 weeks so not doing away with it. i don't like it being cut but hardly worth voting no over it.
It is worth voting no as it is a cut in our terms and conditions ,
We do not all give in to bullies like you do aiden .
In what way are we being bullied. we are being asked to vote on an agreement between cwu an rm its simply a yes or no.. no bullying involved.
A pathetic agreement that gives us a very poor pay rise and reduces our terms and conditions ,
Royal mail and now the union as well are trying to bully us with pathetic propaganda , such as theres no money (unless you are management)
and the we might go into administration nonsense ,
The management at Royal mail are making no concessions nor are the union top brass ,
You can roll over and accept all rubbish they throw at you aiden but i am made of sterner stuff .
How is staff on months or year,s the problem ffs they are on long time sick for a reason an don,t get paid if off for 1year in 4 years.have you read the cancer thread might open your eyes
Those on long term sick are considered a problem to the company because they want to do away with IHR.
You obviously agree with this because you're voting for these changes.
Where have they said they are doing away with ihr.its in the agreement its down to 16 weeks so not doing away with it. i don't like it being cut but hardly worth voting no over it.
It is worth voting no as it is a cut in our terms and conditions ,
We do not all give in to bullies like you do aiden .
In what way are we being bullied. we are being asked to vote on an agreement between cwu an rm its simply a yes or no.. no bullying involved.
A pathetic agreement that gives us a very poor pay rise and reduces our terms and conditions ,
Royal mail and now the union as well are trying to bully us with pathetic propaganda , such as theres no money (unless you are management)
and the we might go into administration nonsense ,
The management at Royal mail are making no concessions nor are the union top brass ,
You can roll over and accept all rubbish they throw at you aiden but i am made of sterner stuff .
Problem is as Mr Walsh said they can bring EA in to play as we've already seen especially if they are actually losing money year on year,saying ovcourse they have money doesn't wash with alot of people,the fact the union agrees they haven't does make one think maybe there isn't.
