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Leighton here to stay?
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johno47
- Posts: 495
- Joined: 10 Feb 2007, 16:45
- Location: Burslem
If leighton or crozier F**k up and go, i dare say they will go with a fat cheque in their back pockets, and im sure they wont be worrying if they can pay their mortgages and bills, the sort of money they are on, are life changing amounts for us, so to try and compare them is absolute f**king b****cks, it ts not exactaly hard to turn a company round, that had been F**ked up by the previous management, by buying companys all over the world, and then selling them at a loss, and that at the time had no competition. And now whats their plan, now their is competition, get rid of the workforce, genius, with millions of more homes being built, they could cut their costs easily, by getting rid of the excessive amount of overpaid bosses that we have, this company has always been top heavy, is it 1 boss to every 3 workers?. They should get more money than us, but, the amount of money they get paid is exstortionate, and as for them being worth their money, nobodys worth that much.
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baggee
- Posts: 86
- Joined: 06 Feb 2007, 16:08
- Location: BURSLEM
Johno i totally agree with everything you have said, and as for the PENSION CRAP Royal Mail keep bringing up every day, THEY TOOK A 15 YEAR HOLIDAY FROM PAYING INTO IT, and now they tell us its our fault and us the POSTIES are told by managers that changes and cuts have to be made in our HOURS and DUTIES, (NOT THERES). I can tell you im am fed up to the back teeth with Royal Mail treating all of us hard working Posties like a bunch of immature kids.
KEEP THE FIGHT GOING.
KEEP THE FIGHT GOING.
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F0zziebear
- MYSTERY MAN
- Posts: 637
- Joined: 31 Jan 2007, 23:45
I suppose I should try and defend my view
This is an open forum and personally I think this is what WTLL sessions were supposed to be about. Two-way dialogue with a chance to express opinions and try and resolve issues.
1. I am still to hear from someone what they should be paid. Both Crozier and Leighton worked their way up through various companies, and have taken on fcuking hard jobs. When you are the boss of a company any decision you make is a massive one of direction, which can completely fcuk up a company (Consignia) or actually make a massive difference (TESCO).
2. Cost-cutting: - As someone who was involved in reducing management overheads over the last 3 years, you as posties have had it relatively easy. When you go into a department with the aim of at least 25% reduction in overheads then come and have a moan. The Sales department reduced its headcount by 50%, marketing have reduced by 40% all within the last four years.
As for cuts in Posties, considering a large number of jobs actually remained after Single Daily Delivery there are still efficiencies to be had there. So it's a matter of offering the customer the right products, with the right type of service, and at a competitive price.
Before you hit the reply button and slag me off I think good postmen are worth more than they get at the moment, but due to national pay negotiations I as a former DOM couldn't reward them for high quality performance. Your union is still strong, and I wouldn't be surprised that another national strike is on the cards regarding these automation plans.
Thank your lucky stars the competition has complained about the Government loan for automation and there might be the possibility that RM may not get the money and all your jobs are safe.
Right thats enough for now, reply (but not with some emotional clap trap) and I am willing to listen to replies
F0zzie
1. I am still to hear from someone what they should be paid. Both Crozier and Leighton worked their way up through various companies, and have taken on fcuking hard jobs. When you are the boss of a company any decision you make is a massive one of direction, which can completely fcuk up a company (Consignia) or actually make a massive difference (TESCO).
2. Cost-cutting: - As someone who was involved in reducing management overheads over the last 3 years, you as posties have had it relatively easy. When you go into a department with the aim of at least 25% reduction in overheads then come and have a moan. The Sales department reduced its headcount by 50%, marketing have reduced by 40% all within the last four years.
As for cuts in Posties, considering a large number of jobs actually remained after Single Daily Delivery there are still efficiencies to be had there. So it's a matter of offering the customer the right products, with the right type of service, and at a competitive price.
Before you hit the reply button and slag me off I think good postmen are worth more than they get at the moment, but due to national pay negotiations I as a former DOM couldn't reward them for high quality performance. Your union is still strong, and I wouldn't be surprised that another national strike is on the cards regarding these automation plans.
Thank your lucky stars the competition has complained about the Government loan for automation and there might be the possibility that RM may not get the money and all your jobs are safe.
Right thats enough for now, reply (but not with some emotional clap trap) and I am willing to listen to replies
F0zzie
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johno47
- Posts: 495
- Joined: 10 Feb 2007, 16:45
- Location: Burslem
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baggee
- Posts: 86
- Joined: 06 Feb 2007, 16:08
- Location: BURSLEM
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ROCKY
- Posts: 2801
- Joined: 03 Dec 2006, 13:18
everyone has there own oponion which i believe is based on the office in which they work,if like us, you have been cut back year after year by a enthusiastic dom then further cuts are going to hit deeper than in some other offices
we were single daily del years before it became national with 2nd del riding round on a van then been placed back for del the next day
many offices have not been touched between national agreements and then only the minimum of loss whilst others have been chopped left right and center because someone wanted to look good.you only have to flit round this forum to see that everyone has different working hours and practices round the country and thats only in delivery,mail times can vary depending on distance from the mail center but even in our little area we have to wait until 0830 for the last missort run to arrive but our sattalite offices clear from us at 0730 and once they are sorted up they can go which puts them on the ground long before we leave the office
if we are to have a national agreement, i would like to see, at last ,everone to be equal the legnth and bredth, same start times, same legnth of del, same working practice if the top boys can manage this without killing the staff, and remember to be legal that job has to be the same for a 60 year old as a 18 year old then they will have earned their brass because no one else has ever managed it and yes these people did earn their position in the past and yes they did earn the money in the past, but that was the past, this is the public sector and not the private which can be vastly different
one thing i have wondered about is how the orders from the top translate down the ranks when i joined the army we were told the old story in our first comms lesson of how send reinforcements the regiment is going to advance changed turned into send 3 and 4 pence the regiment is going to a dance as it was passed down the line how do the wishes at the top change by the time they have filtered down through layers of managers all who want to put things their own way and want to look good to those above them you seem to be in a high position fozzie maybe you can answer this
we were single daily del years before it became national with 2nd del riding round on a van then been placed back for del the next day
many offices have not been touched between national agreements and then only the minimum of loss whilst others have been chopped left right and center because someone wanted to look good.you only have to flit round this forum to see that everyone has different working hours and practices round the country and thats only in delivery,mail times can vary depending on distance from the mail center but even in our little area we have to wait until 0830 for the last missort run to arrive but our sattalite offices clear from us at 0730 and once they are sorted up they can go which puts them on the ground long before we leave the office
if we are to have a national agreement, i would like to see, at last ,everone to be equal the legnth and bredth, same start times, same legnth of del, same working practice if the top boys can manage this without killing the staff, and remember to be legal that job has to be the same for a 60 year old as a 18 year old then they will have earned their brass because no one else has ever managed it and yes these people did earn their position in the past and yes they did earn the money in the past, but that was the past, this is the public sector and not the private which can be vastly different
one thing i have wondered about is how the orders from the top translate down the ranks when i joined the army we were told the old story in our first comms lesson of how send reinforcements the regiment is going to advance changed turned into send 3 and 4 pence the regiment is going to a dance as it was passed down the line how do the wishes at the top change by the time they have filtered down through layers of managers all who want to put things their own way and want to look good to those above them you seem to be in a high position fozzie maybe you can answer this
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baggee
- Posts: 86
- Joined: 06 Feb 2007, 16:08
- Location: BURSLEM
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POSTMAN
- SITE ADMINISTRATOR
- Posts: 32685
- Joined: 07 Aug 2006, 03:19
- Gender: Male
Re: I suppose I should try and defend my view
F0zziebear wrote:This is an open forum and personally I think this is what WTLL sessions were supposed to be about. Two-way dialogue with a chance to express opinions and try and resolve issues.
1. I am still to hear from someone what they should be paid. Both Crozier and Leighton worked their way up through various companies, and have taken on fcuking hard jobs. When you are the boss of a company any decision you make is a massive one of direction, which can completely fcuk up a company (Consignia) or actually make a massive difference (TESCO).
It doesn't matter what WE think they should be payed,we know how the fat cat thing works,and every fat cat c*** is over payed.
It is the same everywhere,the little guy gets trodden on no arguments from you or anyone else that's how it works.
Point of note,i may be wrong but i seem to rem that Croziers prob on £200,000+ a year give or take a few thousand either way.
TBF that aint a problem,i earn,my DOM earns more than me,his Manager more than him,his Manager.......
It's the Bonuses that grates us,well me anyway,and all for in reality one thing,cutting jobs(will get to your point about that in a min)
I don't think he and Al have done a good job,if they were that clever then yes we'd be in the s**t but not as much s**t as we are in,or does it go back to my other post in here,the people around them,so that's bad decision making then.
Hands are tied yes,but if you're that clever then you untie them to a certain extent.
Big Al and Little Adam were hired by the GOVERNMENT,the same GOVERNMENT that looks after ALL of us in the UK,and the same GOVERNMENT that knew what was going to happen and how it would happen,and felt that they could do a job.
With what we're having to put up with we're gonna have a go at the decision makers who make large life changeing sums of money out of it,again that's how it works.
F0zziebear wrote: 2. Cost-cutting: - As someone who was involved in reducing management overheads over the last 3 years, you as posties have had it relatively easy. When you go into a department with the aim of at least 25% reduction in overheads then come and have a moan. The Sales department reduced its headcount by 50%, marketing have reduced by 40% all within the last four years.
As for cuts in Posties, considering a large number of jobs actually remained after Single Daily Delivery there are still efficiencies to be had there. So it's a matter of offering the customer the right products, with the right type of service, and at a competitive price.
Jobs we're lost,but more Dutys we're lost,which means we now work harder than before,yes we get payed a bit more,but we payed for it in the 1st place.
More savings?Yes there will be offices where savings can be made,for instance the office that shares my building.
My office,apart from the nights,there's not much there,Burslem?very much doubt it.
Read the 'work your proper hours day' and the 'Burslem boys on strike again' thread.
We give so much to RM with very little back,check out the Poll Forum as well.
And that hurts,yes we're fools to ourselves but a lot of it is human nature.
RM has a workforce that has propped it up for years,we've saved them 10's of Millions over many years,and because we helped tick all the boxes there has been a massive lack of investment at ground level.
Remember your 'massive logisitcal exercise ' post regarding safe drops???
We at our office after the SDD waited 2 1/2 YEARS for our pouch boxes!!!! sorry,some of them the rest..........
I was always told 'don't bit the hand that feeds you' well the hand is turning now because it's had enough!!!
F0zziebear wrote: Before you hit the reply button and slag me off I think good postmen are worth more than they get at the moment, but due to national pay negotiations I as a former DOM couldn't reward them for high quality performance.
Your union is still strong, and I wouldn't be surprised that another national strike is on the cards regarding these automation plans.
Thank your lucky stars the competition has complained about the Government loan for automation and there might be the possibility that RM may not get the money and all your jobs are safe.
Darned good point about the pay of course
And a very good point about the complaints.
F0zziebear wrote: Right thats enough for now, reply (but not with some emotional clap trap) and I am willing to listen to replies
F0zzie
Well i'm welling up as i write this,will you let that pass though.
Bit of a summary,not very happy with Management,either the bullying ones or the useless decision making ones.
The whole Mail market is shagged for us,we want to help,but within reason,don't shaft us.
It's obvious we need to save money,but we're not robots or f***ing Donkeys.
Top Management it seems need to get their finger out and earn their wages.
I Wrote-During Covid-Which is still relevant now
It's good to get these types of threads, the ridiculous my manager said bollox, so we can reassure ourselves that while the world is falling apart, Royal Mail managers are still being the low-life C***S they have always been.
My BFF Clash
The daily grind of having to argue your case with an intellectual pigmy of a line manager is physically and emotionally draining.
It's good to get these types of threads, the ridiculous my manager said bollox, so we can reassure ourselves that while the world is falling apart, Royal Mail managers are still being the low-life C***S they have always been.
My BFF Clash
The daily grind of having to argue your case with an intellectual pigmy of a line manager is physically and emotionally draining.
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F0zziebear
- MYSTERY MAN
- Posts: 637
- Joined: 31 Jan 2007, 23:45
re: Emotionally touched
Dear all,
The thing I loved when I was in frontline Ops management was the devotion and pride in the job. What killed me was seeing Posties who had earn't an MBE for services to the community having to work alongside idle bast*rds who we couldn't get rid of. It made me sick. There was a guy in my office who was intelligent and had been made redundant from another job. He turned up on time everyday, uniform sparkling, and had ideas. I listened to him and tried to put some of them in to improve the way the office worked. You know why he stuck with it? He wanted to get his kid through University and with tuition fees the kid needed all the help he could get. He had to put up with people like me who were new to Ops and trying to do their best with sh*t training. That's what made me go home everyday with the aim of trying to make his life just a little bit more bearable.
I have prepped rounds, sorted mail during strikes (does that make me a scab?), done the missorts, walked rounds, gone and seen a postie who fell down the stairs and was in hospital with a neck-brace (outside of office hours), cleaned up the floor after the posties have gone out of their discarded breakfast, etc..... Does that mean my opinion is more valid? I don't know.
My opinions are purely based on my specific experiences prior, during and since working for Royal Mail. I apologise for any factual incorrect information posted, but do not apologise for any subjective view expressed. I do not think anyone's opinion is sh*t unless it is factually incorrect, and assume they can only see the world of RM through their own experiences.
I doubt we will ever agree on what the top management should earn, or are worth to Royal Mail. Sometimes its better the devil you know? I personally think plenty of middle management still earn too much in comparison to frontline management. Just ask RM about the Marketing department (trust me on this as I personally did a review of their grade structure) and without compulsory redundancy one cannot get rid of them!
Please do not think you are the only one's feeling the pinch in RM. As I said before I can personally vouch for some considerable cuts across the non-operational parts of the business in recent years.
As for the pension holidays you should have a word with the Chancellor of the Exchequer who has raided the pot over the last 10 years (and probably his predecessor!).
I also agree that considering national agreements the inconsistent implementation of them is something to be challenged and questioned, as it seems to me that if you complain and become militant you can get away with many of the cuts.
RM's supply chain management has been shocking and the provision of SDD equipment was poor. I can personally say that this should be beginning to improve as the people behind that part of the business are actually quite competent in my opinion.
The sign of a successful organisation is one that actually implements the bosses desires and is understood by the frontline (as in the army). RM has suffered (personally seen) by senior/middle management obstructing changes that will benefit the business. These people have got into comfortable jobs and know they cannot earn similar money externally and hold onto and aim to create empires. It take a strong and well-informed departmental boss to notice this and see who is working for the interests of the company and not purely for themselves.
As for high performing posties I wasn't mentioning age (though might have inferred this). There are plenty of 60 something postmen who have shown amazing service to the company and still work to a high standard. However, if your performance does fall below acceptable tolerances then a good company/union should recognise this. I personally saw a long serving postie who was not upto the job anymore and held back missorts etc... a: Do the other posties help the person out? b: Leave the missorts and go out on the round anyway c: The person should retire / be performance reviewed and let go on those grounds? I am genuinely interested in people's opinions on this.
My former Area Manager once came in and said to my staff that if they didn't like the job they had the choice to leave. Unsurprisingly they got up and walked out and it took me months to get another WTLL. However, I actually agree with what he said, though disagreed with the manner in which he expressed it.
Our Government and the European Union have decided that the postal industry is not a public service. I agree on the grounds that the majority of post is now in the form of advertising, rather than social communication. If it was the latter then I would agree that it should remain public.
One thing that stands in posties favour is that the competition have to help maintain the USO. RM are planning on trying to put in retail zonal pricing, which will help prevent them from setting up a cherry-picking E2E urban delivery system.
I personally think competition should be there to improve the service to the customer through better products and customer service. However, the RM postie is where you have a considerable advantage as the knowledge of delivery rounds etc... is something no machine can replace or be used by the competition to gain an advantage. Remember this, but don't think that further cuts won't come in the next 5 years!
Right that's plenty to chew on and we can discuss more another time
Adios
F0zzie
The thing I loved when I was in frontline Ops management was the devotion and pride in the job. What killed me was seeing Posties who had earn't an MBE for services to the community having to work alongside idle bast*rds who we couldn't get rid of. It made me sick. There was a guy in my office who was intelligent and had been made redundant from another job. He turned up on time everyday, uniform sparkling, and had ideas. I listened to him and tried to put some of them in to improve the way the office worked. You know why he stuck with it? He wanted to get his kid through University and with tuition fees the kid needed all the help he could get. He had to put up with people like me who were new to Ops and trying to do their best with sh*t training. That's what made me go home everyday with the aim of trying to make his life just a little bit more bearable.
I have prepped rounds, sorted mail during strikes (does that make me a scab?), done the missorts, walked rounds, gone and seen a postie who fell down the stairs and was in hospital with a neck-brace (outside of office hours), cleaned up the floor after the posties have gone out of their discarded breakfast, etc..... Does that mean my opinion is more valid? I don't know.
My opinions are purely based on my specific experiences prior, during and since working for Royal Mail. I apologise for any factual incorrect information posted, but do not apologise for any subjective view expressed. I do not think anyone's opinion is sh*t unless it is factually incorrect, and assume they can only see the world of RM through their own experiences.
I doubt we will ever agree on what the top management should earn, or are worth to Royal Mail. Sometimes its better the devil you know? I personally think plenty of middle management still earn too much in comparison to frontline management. Just ask RM about the Marketing department (trust me on this as I personally did a review of their grade structure) and without compulsory redundancy one cannot get rid of them!
Please do not think you are the only one's feeling the pinch in RM. As I said before I can personally vouch for some considerable cuts across the non-operational parts of the business in recent years.
As for the pension holidays you should have a word with the Chancellor of the Exchequer who has raided the pot over the last 10 years (and probably his predecessor!).
I also agree that considering national agreements the inconsistent implementation of them is something to be challenged and questioned, as it seems to me that if you complain and become militant you can get away with many of the cuts.
RM's supply chain management has been shocking and the provision of SDD equipment was poor. I can personally say that this should be beginning to improve as the people behind that part of the business are actually quite competent in my opinion.
The sign of a successful organisation is one that actually implements the bosses desires and is understood by the frontline (as in the army). RM has suffered (personally seen) by senior/middle management obstructing changes that will benefit the business. These people have got into comfortable jobs and know they cannot earn similar money externally and hold onto and aim to create empires. It take a strong and well-informed departmental boss to notice this and see who is working for the interests of the company and not purely for themselves.
As for high performing posties I wasn't mentioning age (though might have inferred this). There are plenty of 60 something postmen who have shown amazing service to the company and still work to a high standard. However, if your performance does fall below acceptable tolerances then a good company/union should recognise this. I personally saw a long serving postie who was not upto the job anymore and held back missorts etc... a: Do the other posties help the person out? b: Leave the missorts and go out on the round anyway c: The person should retire / be performance reviewed and let go on those grounds? I am genuinely interested in people's opinions on this.
My former Area Manager once came in and said to my staff that if they didn't like the job they had the choice to leave. Unsurprisingly they got up and walked out and it took me months to get another WTLL. However, I actually agree with what he said, though disagreed with the manner in which he expressed it.
Our Government and the European Union have decided that the postal industry is not a public service. I agree on the grounds that the majority of post is now in the form of advertising, rather than social communication. If it was the latter then I would agree that it should remain public.
One thing that stands in posties favour is that the competition have to help maintain the USO. RM are planning on trying to put in retail zonal pricing, which will help prevent them from setting up a cherry-picking E2E urban delivery system.
I personally think competition should be there to improve the service to the customer through better products and customer service. However, the RM postie is where you have a considerable advantage as the knowledge of delivery rounds etc... is something no machine can replace or be used by the competition to gain an advantage. Remember this, but don't think that further cuts won't come in the next 5 years!
Right that's plenty to chew on and we can discuss more another time
Adios
F0zzie
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L Tommo
- Posts: 3165
- Joined: 06 Feb 2007, 09:43
- Gender: Male
- Location: WATCHING YOU WATCHING ME!
Coooorrrr a good old tear up!!!
Well that was a great Rant from all sides! I think fozz U should enjoy your sundays more. Like me i just sit back and sort out my paperwork i need to save my Job, from RM and there Bullyboy tatics.. Crazior or wot ever his name is?? Had a lovely little INSENTIVE BONUS when he joined, £57K Now thats true so how can anyone who has never posted a letter Managed a DO or MC or a little red van even!! Get that kind of BONUS when we get £400 pieces of silver...? ITS ALL A CON, George Orwel Said it all In Animal farm.. About the pigs.. "SOME ARE MORE EQUAL THAN OTHERS." Thats a fact jack!!!! 
OUT....
DONT LET THE POSTIES GRIND YOU DOWN FOZZIE!
OUT....
DONT LET THE POSTIES GRIND YOU DOWN FOZZIE!
L TOMMO.... ILLEGITIMIS NON CARBORUNDUM........
EAST LONDON MAIL CENTER-ISHHHH
EAST LONDON MAIL CENTER-ISHHHH
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F0zziebear
- MYSTERY MAN
- Posts: 637
- Joined: 31 Jan 2007, 23:45
Don't worry you'll be working Sundays soon!
If you use logic people have more time to read their post on Saturday's and Sunday's so in theory they should be offering a Sunday delivery service!
As for Crozier's bonus scheme's I am sceptical about these incetive schemes and felt as a manager as though I didn't understand what I was due. Explain to me how even when we were making a loss bonuses were paid out! A bonus should be for good performance, but it seems especially in the public sector that a bonus is given regardless!
£400 per delivery round! Ok so multiply it by how man delivery rounds? Now divide that 57k into that and work out what he gets per delivery round. Oh and remember that he is reponsible for every Parcelforce delivery operation and post-office in the country. To be honest its a f*cking hard job to do.
All good/great leaders ensure they have top quality right-hand people alognside. I've been in meetings with him and his talent comes from asking the right questions. It impossible as the CEO of RM Group to know everything about everything, but somehow he cuts to the nub of an issue.
His right-hand people:
1. Tom Melvin - Head of RM operations (regardless of what you think about him (as some think he is two-faced) he does know operations and if a round isn't covered or a DO fails to clear that DOM will get a call from him and there's no pulling the wool over his eyes.
2. Alex Smith - Director Strategy. Former McKinsey & Co. partner he is a very smart individual and has managed to deal with the DTI & Postcomm effectively to stifle competition and pull the wool over the DTi's eyes (though they didn't get the share option through the way they wanted)
3. Mary Fagan - Director Communications. A fiesty woman who has successfully handled the sound bytes with the media and got RM's message across successfully.
There are others like Jon Millidge who deals with the unions and has successfully negotiated over the last couple of years.
Now as an individual in a DO not getting the right equipment, feeling under-valued etc... is exactly your experience and RM has not 'delivered' for you. There is no excuse for not having the right equipment, training etc.... to do the job and that really p*ssed me off. I remember when I was a DOM and found out about all the trolleys being stored in Swindon, yet we struggled to have enough and with the right capacity. Fortunately I had contacts so got a whole load sent down. What about the times when people's uniforms didn't turn up, elastic bands ran out, or P739s ran-out. All the sh*tty jobs a frontline manager needs to do, and relies on others to deliver. I don't envy your jobs and think you are now just about getting paid what you deserve for the job. Personally I would pay you about 17.5% more per year, but at the same time would get rid of upto 25% of the posties. These are grand figures and only based on personal experience in and around London.
I would like to see the same respect for the postie as there was 15+ years ago, as you have unique knowledge and skills, so it should not be seen as a menial job that is purely reptititive. However, the union perspective is to have as many members as possible, which means protecting as many jobs as possible regardless of whether they are still needed or not! That is a structural problem with the way things are set-up.
Anyway let's get off the soap-box and try and talk about other things apart from Crozier's cushy salary
F0zz
p.s. I am neither Adam Crozier or Allan Leighton and do not work for RM anymore, but still in the industry working for the competition.
As for Crozier's bonus scheme's I am sceptical about these incetive schemes and felt as a manager as though I didn't understand what I was due. Explain to me how even when we were making a loss bonuses were paid out! A bonus should be for good performance, but it seems especially in the public sector that a bonus is given regardless!
£400 per delivery round! Ok so multiply it by how man delivery rounds? Now divide that 57k into that and work out what he gets per delivery round. Oh and remember that he is reponsible for every Parcelforce delivery operation and post-office in the country. To be honest its a f*cking hard job to do.
All good/great leaders ensure they have top quality right-hand people alognside. I've been in meetings with him and his talent comes from asking the right questions. It impossible as the CEO of RM Group to know everything about everything, but somehow he cuts to the nub of an issue.
His right-hand people:
1. Tom Melvin - Head of RM operations (regardless of what you think about him (as some think he is two-faced) he does know operations and if a round isn't covered or a DO fails to clear that DOM will get a call from him and there's no pulling the wool over his eyes.
2. Alex Smith - Director Strategy. Former McKinsey & Co. partner he is a very smart individual and has managed to deal with the DTI & Postcomm effectively to stifle competition and pull the wool over the DTi's eyes (though they didn't get the share option through the way they wanted)
3. Mary Fagan - Director Communications. A fiesty woman who has successfully handled the sound bytes with the media and got RM's message across successfully.
There are others like Jon Millidge who deals with the unions and has successfully negotiated over the last couple of years.
Now as an individual in a DO not getting the right equipment, feeling under-valued etc... is exactly your experience and RM has not 'delivered' for you. There is no excuse for not having the right equipment, training etc.... to do the job and that really p*ssed me off. I remember when I was a DOM and found out about all the trolleys being stored in Swindon, yet we struggled to have enough and with the right capacity. Fortunately I had contacts so got a whole load sent down. What about the times when people's uniforms didn't turn up, elastic bands ran out, or P739s ran-out. All the sh*tty jobs a frontline manager needs to do, and relies on others to deliver. I don't envy your jobs and think you are now just about getting paid what you deserve for the job. Personally I would pay you about 17.5% more per year, but at the same time would get rid of upto 25% of the posties. These are grand figures and only based on personal experience in and around London.
I would like to see the same respect for the postie as there was 15+ years ago, as you have unique knowledge and skills, so it should not be seen as a menial job that is purely reptititive. However, the union perspective is to have as many members as possible, which means protecting as many jobs as possible regardless of whether they are still needed or not! That is a structural problem with the way things are set-up.
Anyway let's get off the soap-box and try and talk about other things apart from Crozier's cushy salary
F0zz
p.s. I am neither Adam Crozier or Allan Leighton and do not work for RM anymore, but still in the industry working for the competition.
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TrueBlueTerrier
- FORUM ADMINISTRATOR
- Posts: 72511
- Joined: 30 Dec 2006, 10:29
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Fozzie said "As for cuts in Posties, considering a large number of jobs actually remained after Single Daily Delivery there are still efficiencies to be had there"
I think this says it all Management appear to belive savings always come from job losses, why cant they put their vast experience to good effect and look at other ways of making money or savings. Just one idea I saw in courier why not let companies advertise on the side of vans and trucks, even on the pouch bags and trolleys ????.
I think this says it all Management appear to belive savings always come from job losses, why cant they put their vast experience to good effect and look at other ways of making money or savings. Just one idea I saw in courier why not let companies advertise on the side of vans and trucks, even on the pouch bags and trolleys ????.
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F0zziebear
- MYSTERY MAN
- Posts: 637
- Joined: 31 Jan 2007, 23:45
Let me explain top-line and bottom-line
Fair point so I shall explain:
Top-line:
As a company you want to come up with products that give you a competitive advantage, and ideally one of 5-10 years (remember RM now has competition). If you produce products that customers want then your revenue is either a: Replace due to falling revenue from other products b: Increased by releasing new products.
Currently there is very little in the way of new products in the market place that is different to what RM offers. This is good news if you work for RM as the competition are currently competing on price. There are little or no margins for TNT, UK Mail and DHL at the moment. The only way they can make the 2bn items per year work is by delivering it themselves, which is much harder to successfully do at the quality of service, and zonal pricing that RM offer.
Bottom-line:
These are your costs. You obviously want to minimise the amount you are spending internally to deliver what you promise. For example: RM had/has some contracts with companies that weren't/aren't as good as value as they could get. Type in Royal Mail on Google News and search through various articles. You will notice that RM is now purchasing things more wisely. They have consolidated properties including operational ones to be more efficient. Having an efficient delivery operation is also one aspect of this, so don't think you were top of the list. Trust when I say you are not. After the debacle of SDD Adam Crozier et al. went after management overheads, which were/are much easier to change. Whilst they removed 10,000+ management heads quality of service has improved. Why? Well actually removing the layers between senior management and frontline improves the command and control structure. Example:
Postie - Frontline Mgr - DOM - DSM* - AGM - TD - Head of Ops (Tom Melvin) - Head of RM (Ian Griffiths) - CEO - Adam Crozier
You may say there are too many levels, but its as much about ideal span control (numbers of people reporting to someone depending on the role). RM are currently changing the operational management structure in each area and the *DSM role may not now exist. It is also dependent on the size of the DO and area as to whether you may have 1 or 2 more layers. So I reckon you should be about 7 - 8 people away from adam Crozier. For a company of 160,000 (RM, 193,000 total company) that is reasonable in my opinion.
The NHS is suffering because there are way to many levels of management between frontline delivery and directors.
I hope you see that your role is one part of the whole picture. It's a shame that RM does not communicate more effectively with their employees about what is going on in the business. I was fortunate enough to work across most parts of the company, and also do roles that allowed me access and try to understand how thinks work are most angles.
F0zzie
Top-line:
As a company you want to come up with products that give you a competitive advantage, and ideally one of 5-10 years (remember RM now has competition). If you produce products that customers want then your revenue is either a: Replace due to falling revenue from other products b: Increased by releasing new products.
Currently there is very little in the way of new products in the market place that is different to what RM offers. This is good news if you work for RM as the competition are currently competing on price. There are little or no margins for TNT, UK Mail and DHL at the moment. The only way they can make the 2bn items per year work is by delivering it themselves, which is much harder to successfully do at the quality of service, and zonal pricing that RM offer.
Bottom-line:
These are your costs. You obviously want to minimise the amount you are spending internally to deliver what you promise. For example: RM had/has some contracts with companies that weren't/aren't as good as value as they could get. Type in Royal Mail on Google News and search through various articles. You will notice that RM is now purchasing things more wisely. They have consolidated properties including operational ones to be more efficient. Having an efficient delivery operation is also one aspect of this, so don't think you were top of the list. Trust when I say you are not. After the debacle of SDD Adam Crozier et al. went after management overheads, which were/are much easier to change. Whilst they removed 10,000+ management heads quality of service has improved. Why? Well actually removing the layers between senior management and frontline improves the command and control structure. Example:
Postie - Frontline Mgr - DOM - DSM* - AGM - TD - Head of Ops (Tom Melvin) - Head of RM (Ian Griffiths) - CEO - Adam Crozier
You may say there are too many levels, but its as much about ideal span control (numbers of people reporting to someone depending on the role). RM are currently changing the operational management structure in each area and the *DSM role may not now exist. It is also dependent on the size of the DO and area as to whether you may have 1 or 2 more layers. So I reckon you should be about 7 - 8 people away from adam Crozier. For a company of 160,000 (RM, 193,000 total company) that is reasonable in my opinion.
The NHS is suffering because there are way to many levels of management between frontline delivery and directors.
I hope you see that your role is one part of the whole picture. It's a shame that RM does not communicate more effectively with their employees about what is going on in the business. I was fortunate enough to work across most parts of the company, and also do roles that allowed me access and try to understand how thinks work are most angles.
F0zzie
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ROCKY
- Posts: 2801
- Joined: 03 Dec 2006, 13:18
where are you now fozzie?at times you sound like you are current rm staff, other times you sound like high mgmt,now you say you work for the other side but you seem to think like a watchdog,you name drop with no mercy i used to be mgmt but never climbed the heights you seem to have why did you leave and why have you up to date data knowledge?
in fact with your no how why did you leave
in fact with your no how why did you leave
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L Tommo
- Posts: 3165
- Joined: 06 Feb 2007, 09:43
- Gender: Male
- Location: WATCHING YOU WATCHING ME!
Fozzie, U taking the piss???
Ok i read everything you say Fozzie But why oh why do you harp on about devide 400 in to 57k stick a broom up our arses n thank him for sodding up the FA, Then coming on his white charger to save US!!! ONE WORD.. BOLLOX!!! He got his BONUS as a INCENTIVE not any productivity scheme RM dreamt up, Crozier got it for getting his job no more no less!!! Like a transfer bung as in ALL dodgy deals . Old school tie crap.. Dont tell us posties who worked in all weathers breaking our backs and being Bullied in some cases by over bearing dogmatic clockwatchers who think only about a clear office @ all cost to the workers but dont want to pay for it!!! U pay peanuts you get monkeys!!! 
!!! Ur words you write are all open and mostly fair. BUT they have been over shadowed by your seemingly blind devotion to the great RM cause... f**k Alan and tiny adam.. ... Both r private sector fat cats end of!! No ohhhh they have to worry about the whole of royal mail so they should get a massive bonus compared to the humble workers sweat and bull we suffer. Yeh ive heard it before,," If u dont like it get another job" Dont make it right tho does it???? Q: Did you get a incentive bonus when starting RM???? I never and i would love for anyone tell me how Little Adam crazier got his and is the £ worth while and in up keep with anybodies payrise, bonus, or hand out.. ??? The last is the only true case!!!!
OUT.....
DONT LET THE BULLSHIT GRIND YOU DOWN, (or the brainwashing fozzie)
!!! Ur words you write are all open and mostly fair. BUT they have been over shadowed by your seemingly blind devotion to the great RM cause... f**k Alan and tiny adam.. ... Both r private sector fat cats end of!! No ohhhh they have to worry about the whole of royal mail so they should get a massive bonus compared to the humble workers sweat and bull we suffer. Yeh ive heard it before,," If u dont like it get another job" Dont make it right tho does it???? Q: Did you get a incentive bonus when starting RM???? I never and i would love for anyone tell me how Little Adam crazier got his and is the £ worth while and in up keep with anybodies payrise, bonus, or hand out.. ??? The last is the only true case!!!! OUT.....
DONT LET THE BULLSHIT GRIND YOU DOWN, (or the brainwashing fozzie)
L TOMMO.... ILLEGITIMIS NON CARBORUNDUM........
EAST LONDON MAIL CENTER-ISHHHH
EAST LONDON MAIL CENTER-ISHHHH