Know your enemy

[L Tommo]

The only answer i think any postie with a consience is CROZIER SHOULDNT BE IN THE JOB , SO GETS NOTHING..

The answer to bonuses is a joke. After the WAYFORWARDS/BACKWARDS. We have a bonus system that just is unreachable and when you do get near it, the goalposts are moved once again and next year 5% more to get and less staff to get it with.. The carrot and stick is just the stick now.. A big stick to hit us with... Lil adams signing on bung was outragous and any comments about his wages or bonuses is a mute point as far as a posties bonus is concerned..
When a Civil Servant is the top paid person in this country then do you think he should get a bonus to his amount when ROYAL MAIL are pleading poverty???

I DONT THINK SO......

He should be leading by example not taking the piss out of the workforce he is trying to motivate,,, unless he is trying to demotivate us???? on purpous!!!!

If a postie acted, lied,cheated, failed at his job know doubt he/her would be sacked no questions asked. But its the same old school ties act with these fecking scavengers, they get promoted given larger bonuses, moved sideways and if they are past there bullshite sell by date when the people in power cant stand the heat or popularity is dropping to far for votes , then and only then these parasites are moved on with a grand cheerie'o and golden handshake. Ready for the next unlucky business to fall fail to another of the fat cats... Its just a game to theses people... EARN AND BURN... THEN MOVE ON... BASTARDS!!!! SO I THINK lil adam SHOULD GET THE BOOT , THE TIN TACK. FIRED. HE IS THE WEAKEST LINK GOODBYE. FECKED OFF. ADIOS'D.. P45'D SHOWN HIS MARCHIN ORDERS... (ANYMORE IS WELCOME FROM U LOT?) JUST PISS OFF AND NEVER DARKEN OUR DOOR AGAIN U PIECE OF DOGSHITE........ HE DISGUSTS ME!!! :cfo


OUT

DONT LET THIS BASTARD GRIND US DOWN!!!

[PHP]

Still no-one has responded. How much would you pay someone to run the Royal Mail? I'm not asking how much you would pay this lot as it's obvious the relationship has ended.

I was brought up to believe that in order to EARN something you have to WORK for it!

How much would you pay someone to manage a medium sized DO (lets say approx. 100-200 posties)? As there seems to be major unhappiness at their bonus?

When my DOM bothers to turn up and I see him do some work I'll let you know.

Can someone also tell me how much bonus a postie gets each year? Is this bonus guaranteed or is it performance related?

Sh*t the bi-monthly rubbish collection is here...........................

We get monthly bonuses based on the performance of our DO, which is usually £74.

[johnnyp]

£43 in my office Fozz

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Has anyone else noticed in Fozzies resume of Crozier that he never worked ina Company that was providing a service. Only those that either had to turn a profit or get shareholders a good dividend.

Also Fozzie I cannot see anyone deserving a wage higher than £100,000 PA unless they own the company. There is no way that anyone can spend £1,000.000 a year without being out and out greedy. Bit left wing but there you go.

[johnnyp]

What about Footballers T.B.T. Are they worth the money ?
The worlds gone mad mate.

[IWW Fellow Worker]

A question. What do you think an exec. at RM should earn?

Exactly the same as we do. And the same goes for Trade Union officials.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

What about Footballers T.B.T. Are they worth the money ?
The worlds gone mad mate.

Honestly NO - probably why I support a League 1 team.

[IWW Fellow Worker]

What about Footballers T.B.T. Are they worth the money ?
The worlds gone mad mate.

The world has indeed gone mad when people are being paid £50-100,000 per week for playing a game. At least Gerrard, Rooney and Lampard have got where they are by possessing a natural talent for what they do, which is more than can be said for Crozier and Leighton.

[F0zziebear]

I was ready to come on here and berate you all for your silence, but you have risen to the task. Some fair points in there to be honest.

To give you an idea of pay scales:
Average DOM approx £35k
Area General Manager - between £80k-£120k
Senior Exec. £200K-£500K
Crozier.... The sky's the limit
Top Union Exec. £80k-£100k (I think)

Once you are a senior exec. it does seem to be an inner circle. I was going to argue that their major decisions have to go to the Holdings Board, which is made up of non-execs from other organisations. They are suppsoed to act in the wide interest, not sure if people feel comfortable with that?

As for earning a days salary, well the senior exec. do plenty of hours, but whether that warrants their salary not sure.

Suppose there's two ways of looking at it. Crozier is responsible for every delivery round, and piece of mail in the country. His performance is entirely down to the performance of his employees. Should he be earning something that relfects that responsibility. For example I was in charge of approx. 30 delivery rounds yet I earnt about 1.5 times the salary of a postie, yet the postie is only responsible for their round?

Bonuses for lower mgmt and posties is a strnage world. I normally worked on getting approx. 80% of that bonus gauranteed and the rest was actually 'true' bonus related.

As for the enemy in general, most are of the privatisation/outsourcing mould. Are they nasty people no not really. Are they greedy? They are living the captialist dream like the rest of us. Are they cocking things up? No-ones perfect. Will they walk into another cosy job after this? Probably as most reckon any job after RM is likely to be easier without the union pressures.

F0zz and chips please

[ROCKY]

fozzie
definition of value to me is the maximum i would be willing to pay for an item or person and im sorry i dont see our top boys doing anything to be worth what they are getting, as for a doms wage i would say thats about right as i know what the avarage oponion on here thinks, but ive been there and seen enough to know my dom works very hard and my ulcers would not want his job.if we get to see the true end of year results i may change my mind if we have done well about their worth but at the moment any large auditor company with a time and work dept could do what our leadership are doing and probably do it better, as a true leader you are only as good as your last success and im afraid that all we are doing is loosing so no to me they are not worth more than £100,000 per annum plus a good bonus if they lead a true turn around and not a masterpiece of creative book keeping like the last time around

[PHP]

As for earning a days salary, well the senior exec. do plenty of hours, but whether that warrants their salary not sure.

Working 3 days a week must be exhausting!

[Big Daz]

Still no-one has responded. How much would you pay someone to run the Royal Mail? I'm not asking how much you would pay this lot as it's obvious the relationship has ended.

How much would you pay someone to manage a medium sized DO (lets say approx. 100-200 posties)? As there seems to be major unhappiness at their bonus?

Can someone also tell me how much bonus a postie gets each year? Is this bonus guaranteed or is it performance related?

Sh*t the bi-monthly rubbish collection is here...........................

Not getting a bonus though are we, all we got was a £4 a week payrise through effecincey scheme which didnt live up to all the hype! At my office the budget saving equates to 125 hours (we employ around 69 people) so if we get 126 hours saving thats 50% divided between 69 people in money terms 30 minutes worth of money shared between the whole office. WOW! Hardly inspires us to make savings does it? And after the 125 hours have gone how many more hours would have to go to get a bonus of say £100 each? Now compare that to Croziers bonus scheme is it any wonder we are so pissed off?

2000 new delivery points are being built in my patch we need hours putting in not taking out. We took out 2 deliverys last year and 2 S/A collection routes last year under effecincey scheme and made further savings through scrapping DOM support and reducing a FT to PT in Q4. Were is our Q4 money?

SDD: In my office we took out nights so along with the effceincey savings there is nothing left to taKE out! NO BONUS FOR MY MEMBERS THEN!

We should all get the same bonus from the top to the bottom we all contribute equally to the success of RM.

I have looked through the appointmnets section of the times and Crozier is definetly over paid.

[F0zziebear]

Let's say RM offered exactly the say bonus for everyone do you think any of the senior mgmt would stay?

If Crozier was paid about £100k do you think he would stay or anyone else would bother coming in the run the company? I'm sure there would be a long list of people wanting a £100k salary, but would they be any good? I know you're going to say they can't be any worse.

I agree that efficiency and other bonus schemes are a complex mess. I for one never understood my bonus structure and when I did recieve it, it wasn't with any real sense of pride as I couldn't relate to it.

Extra delivery points is an interesting one. Where I worked there were loads of new delivery points and somehow we cobbled a sort of round together without it being formal. As a Delivery Line Manager it sort of got done on a day by day basis. Very unprofessional in my opinion but I wasn't running the show at that time.

I always found that the drives were a bit over resourced and hopefully that office now has fewer of them, pretty sure that's the case. I did some of the drives during a strike and managed to deliver to all the big businesses in the area within 45 minutes. Fair play that getting to some of the smaller ones might take longer, but then I'd combine them with a normal walking round as their volume didn't justify someone running around in a red van delivering to them.

RM have been desperately trying to create profit and loss accounts for delivery offices. This means that as a DO you could align costs more closely. This would also pave the way for possible pritvatisation, and more likely a local management buy out. Imagine as a group of posties having complete control over your DO. You have an income and with that income you have to deliver x amount of post. I suppose one could call it a franchise. You would also be a in a position to tender for competitors posts and decide what price you charged. This would help prevent competitors delivering it themselves.

These are just ideas and thoughts. Maybe dangerous ones, but at the moment and over the coming years these ideas will need to be considered carfeully as a way of making a viable future.

F0zz 'n' cream

SW19

[norbet colon]

Tony McCarthy joined Royal Mail in January 2003 from BAE Systems plc, where he was Group HR Director and a member of the Executive Council.

Oh did he? So was he part of the Pergau Dam scandal I wonder? Were his fingerprints on the deal which sold the Hawk jets to bomb civillians on East Timor? I wonder if the Serious Fraud Office have had a word with Tony yet?

The 'Old Boy' network is alive and well in Royal Mail by the look of it.

He's the one who wrote that letter in 2003 , accusing the union of being contradictory/neurotic about national pay / London allowance , basically a bullying , sniffy, arrogant self righteous tone . Very American Union bashing - of course we don't wish to sideline the union - no he wanted a sweetheart/ staff association model- textbook stuff

[norbet colon]

Let's say RM offered exactly the say bonus for everyone do you think any of the senior mgmt would stay?

If Crozier was paid about £100k do you think he would stay or anyone else would bother coming in the run the company? I'm sure there would be a long list of people wanting a £100k salary, but would they be any good? I know you're going to say they can't be any worse.

I agree that efficiency and other bonus schemes are a complex mess. I for one never understood my bonus structure and when I did recieve it, it wasn't with any real sense of pride as I couldn't relate to it.

Extra delivery points is an interesting one. Where I worked there were loads of new delivery points and somehow we cobbled a sort of round together without it being formal. As a Delivery Line Manager it sort of got done on a day by day basis. Very unprofessional in my opinion but I wasn't running the show at that time.

I always found that the drives were a bit over resourced and hopefully that office now has fewer of them, pretty sure that's the case. I did some of the drives during a strike and managed to deliver to all the big businesses in the area within 45 minutes. Fair play that getting to some of the smaller ones might take longer, but then I'd combine them with a normal walking round as their volume didn't justify someone running around in a red van delivering to them. Sounds like a NHS internal market idea , AL's hardly known for originality?, there was a buy out on buses here, better the money staying local than to Brian Sueter & his sister of Stagecoach, then 3-5X times more tax payers subsidy to run trains.These business people must be laughing thier b******s off , what with PFI etc , getting thier noses into the trough , it's like playing a bandit you can't lose !. Thanks Gordon, thanks Your Toniness!

RM have been desperately trying to create profit and loss accounts for delivery offices. This means that as a DO you could align costs more closely. This would also pave the way for possible pritvatisation, and more likely a local management buy out. Imagine as a group of posties having complete control over your DO. You have an income and with that income you have to deliver x amount of post. I suppose one could call it a franchise. You would also be a in a position to tender for competitors posts and decide what price you charged. This would help prevent competitors delivering it themselves.

These are just ideas and thoughts. Maybe dangerous ones, but at the moment and over the coming years these ideas will need to be considered carfeully as a way of making a viable future.

F0zz 'n' cream

SW19