Reg sick pay policy

[Sean06]

Here's an alternative.
Target the piss takers not everyone.
Most of us are now on reduced sick terms because of it.
Everyone knows it.

Pisstakers in mc i work in 3 got sacked last year not 1 of them on a stage just years of abuse of sick an special leave rm know who they are in every part of rm.just to add 3 of them went to a tribunal an am hearing might get a few ££££ but not there job back.so explain how you would target pisstakers.

[Dexydog]

Ok, fair enough RM want to do away with and are chipping away bit by bit at our t's and C's.
Perhaps I could have phrased it a bit less contentiously.
I get that the union are mostly powerless to stop it, but let's face it we're our own worst enemy in lots of areas. (I'm talking about my own interactions in a DO, including people coming in early and giving time for free).
It just seems at every turn we're that bit worse off and that is getting everyone down.

[norris9]

The sick pay arrangements rile me up mostly because you get shafted for bad luck.

A lot of people only go off when they are genuinely sick, but if you have the wrong pattern/order of sickness you get shafted....

If your first sickness is 1 day, and the second sickness is 3 days, then third sickness is a week...you get shafted for more £ than someone who has the same amount of days off in a year but has the days off in the opposite order. It's better to have a longer time off for your first sickness. It's that ridiculous that I don't blame people who drag out their first sickness to essentially get some extra annual leave in, because the risk is that sometime later in the year you will have a longer sickness where you'll only be getting SSP (£20 a day).

How the heck do we have a sick pay policy where Jeff has 20 days off sick in a year and Boris has 17 days off sick in a year, but Jeff gets more money on average per day for being sick.

[norris9]

The sick pay policy:

First absence: Paid your daily wage throughout.
Second absence: First 2 days = SSP (approx £22 a day).
Third absence: First 4 days = SSP
Fourth absence: First 3 days = SSP
Any further absences: First 3 days = SSP

Example why the sick pay policy is unfair, ridiculous and should be illegal:

Jeff has 10 working days off for first absence.
Jeff has 4 days off second absence. 22 22
Jeff has 1 day off for third absence. 22
Jeff has 1 day off for fourth absence. 22

Jeff has had a total of 16 days sick in 2024.
Jeff has had just 4 of those 16 days paid at SSP (approx £22 a day)

Boris has 1 day off for first absence.
Boris has 2 days off for second absence. 22 22
Boris has 4 days off for third absence. 22 22 22 22
Boris has 3 days off for fourth absence. 22 22 22

Boris has had a total of 10 days sick in 2024.
Boris has had 9 of those 10 days paid at SSP (approx £22 a day)

Jeff was off work 60% more than Boris, but Boris got paid approx £240 less than Jeff. WTF!

A fairer way to have done it would be SSP for the first 2 days of each and every sickness.

+ give bonuses to those who go a whole year without a single day off sick.

[Mickeybrowneyes]

So sick absence reduces to 5.4% for 6 months.
Union puts out notice to say SSP has been removed (realistically, not, because they're useless) and, hey everyone, fill yer boots you're on full pay again.
Then RM re-instate because sick has gone through the roof again.
Not gonna happen, ever.

The other shitter is it's 12 months before a stage is removed, was previously 6 months, can't remember what the criteria is, 4 absences or 14 days or something but as someone on stage one for the 1st absence in years I'd prefer that to be restored, I never took the piss but ended up on stage one after an accident at home, dreading catching something that would normally just require a couple of days to shift as I'm certain people go in when they're really not fit to and consequently infecting others.

It's actually worse than that now.
It's been reduced to 3 absences and 12 days before you trigger a stage now instead of 4 absences and 14 days.
Because of the time period it takes to clear a stage now you could sprain your ankle in January then catch a virus just before Christmas almost a year later and get staged again.
It's not great to be fair.
Still ok if you have seriously injured yourself or god forbid need a long period off due to an ongoing illness.
Six months full pay/six months half pay.
The new system makes it harder for people to abuse it but it is also catching good honest people out.
You can appeal stage one/two now with your manager.
People should appeal more.
Allot that are have been overturned.
The appeal rate is low nationally but the success rate of those that have appealed is quite high.
Appeal, there is always an argument and often legitimate reasons why people's stages should be overturned.

[Acca Dacca]

So sick absence reduces to 5.4% for 6 months.
Union puts out notice to say SSP has been removed (realistically, not, because they're useless) and, hey everyone, fill yer boots you're on full pay again.
Then RM re-instate because sick has gone through the roof again.
Not gonna happen, ever.

The other shitter is it's 12 months before a stage is removed, was previously 6 months, can't remember what the criteria is, 4 absences or 14 days or something but as someone on stage one for the 1st absence in years I'd prefer that to be restored, I never took the piss but ended up on stage one after an accident at home, dreading catching something that would normally just require a couple of days to shift as I'm certain people go in when they're really not fit to and consequently infecting others.

It's actually worse than that now.
It's been reduced to 3 absences and 12 days before you trigger a stage now instead of 4 absences and 14 days.
Because of the time period it takes to clear a stage now you could sprain your ankle in January then catch a virus just before Christmas almost a year later and get staged again.
It's not great to be fair.
Still ok if you have seriously injured yourself or god forbid need a long period off due to an ongoing illness.
Six months full pay/six months half pay.
The new system makes it harder for people to abuse it but it is also catching good honest people out.
You can appeal stage one/two now with your manager.
People should appeal more.
Allot that are have been overturned.
The appeal rate is low nationally but the success rate of those that have appealed is quite high.
Appeal, there is always an argument and often legitimate reasons why people's stages should be overturned.

Interesting

Could you give some examples of what kind of absences could be discounted or what kind of argument would form the basis of the appeal?

[postslippete]

Interesting

Could you give some examples of what kind of absences could be discounted or what kind of argument would form the basis of the appeal?

I'm guessing that if the appeal rate is low but the success rate of those that have appealed is quite high it is because stage warnings have been given to those who have suffered with cancer or had a disability related illness? These sorts of illnesses should be discounted and they include time off for medical appointments, treatment or recovery.

The common sick absences that employers don't like and aren't likely to be discounted as a stage in the sick procedure are those who ring in sick and take a few days off work with a dicky tummy/headache/cold/sniffle/toothache etc etc. I'm not saying that their absence isn't genuine as we do a physical job in all weathers and people do get ill. Sometimes people do come in to work when they are obviously ill and it is their choice. All I'm saying is that I would expect someone to receive a stage warning if they go on sick for something like this.

However a bit more of a contentious issue are those employees who are signed off as unfit to work by their GP. They have written proof that they shouldn't be working so should this stage absence be discounted as it is obviously genuine?

[Mickeybrowneyes]

So sick absence reduces to 5.4% for 6 months.
Union puts out notice to say SSP has been removed (realistically, not, because they're useless) and, hey everyone, fill yer boots you're on full pay again.
Then RM re-instate because sick has gone through the roof again.
Not gonna happen, ever.

The other shitter is it's 12 months before a stage is removed, was previously 6 months, can't remember what the criteria is, 4 absences or 14 days or something but as someone on stage one for the 1st absence in years I'd prefer that to be restored, I never took the piss but ended up on stage one after an accident at home, dreading catching something that would normally just require a couple of days to shift as I'm certain people go in when they're really not fit to and consequently infecting others.

It's actually worse than that now.
It's been reduced to 3 absences and 12 days before you trigger a stage now instead of 4 absences and 14 days.
Because of the time period it takes to clear a stage now you could sprain your ankle in January then catch a virus just before Christmas almost a year later and get staged again.
It's not great to be fair.
Still ok if you have seriously injured yourself or god forbid need a long period off due to an ongoing illness.
Six months full pay/six months half pay.
The new system makes it harder for people to abuse it but it is also catching good honest people out.
You can appeal stage one/two now with your manager.
People should appeal more.
Allot that are have been overturned.
The appeal rate is low nationally but the success rate of those that have appealed is quite high.
Appeal, there is always an argument and often legitimate reasons why people's stages should be overturned.

Interesting

Could you give some examples of what kind of absences could be discounted or what kind of argument would form the basis of the appeal?

Depends on the manager dealing with the case in question of course.
If people have a good historical sick and had a short illness that required hospital treatment with document to back it up.
Accidents at work that were initially concluded that safe practices of work wasn't followed but argued in the appeal by the OPG/rep that in the initial decision was wrong.
Management documenting too many days sick on previous absences I've seen.
Ongoing medical conditions, mental or physical that lead to sporadic periods of absence.

[Chelseablue]

If you have a fall which is unavoidable even though rm think it isnt and you feel okay a cpl hours later after fall but you dont report it as u feel okay no long after it .You go off with a sore knee after starting to feel pain days later after hobbling and not wanting to go off , you come back quick after a cpl days as the attendence procedure means youlle lose more money. Then you go off again as the pains not getting any better . Because fall wasnt reported right away means that as a repeat injury your sick absence will suffer again? Dom said it will . Hope thos makes sense lol. I Feel that the genuine dont have a chance with this agreement at all.

[Sean06]

If you have a fall which is unavoidable even though rm think it isnt and you feel okay a cpl hours later after fall but you dont report it as u feel okay no long after it .You go off with a sore knee after starting to feel pain days later after hobbling and not wanting to go off , you come back quick after a cpl days as the attendence procedure means youlle lose more money. Then you go off again as the pains not getting any better . Because fall wasnt reported right away means that as a repeat injury your sick absence will suffer again? Dom said it will . Hope thos makes sense lol. I Feel that the genuine dont have a chance with this agreement at all.

Why would you not report a fall.in what way do you mean a fall is unavoidable.

[Chelseablue]

Light covering of snow , the red shiny tiles underneath , going around a corner trying to be careful and ,,,, . . Didnt report as wasnt in pain later on ( i know i shudv ) but its like a crime drama when u report it.

[Mickeybrowneyes]

Light covering of snow , the red shiny tiles underneath , going around a corner trying to be careful and ,,,, . . Didnt report as wasnt in pain later on ( i know i shudv ) but its like a crime drama when u report it.

You would have to argue that it was delayed injuries.
As often in the case with things like car crashes or impact trauma injuries they have delayed onset.
I didnt feel pain until a week after a car crash once.
Always report it in future though.

[pieoftheday]

The sick pay policy:

First absence: Paid your daily wage throughout.
Second absence: First 2 days = SSP (approx £22 a day).
Third absence: First 4 days = SSP
Fourth absence: First 3 days = SSP
Any further absences: First 3 days = SSP

Example why the sick pay policy is unfair, ridiculous and should be illegal:

Jeff has 10 working days off for first absence.
Jeff has 4 days off second absence. 22 22
Jeff has 1 day off for third absence. 22
Jeff has 1 day off for fourth absence. 22

Jeff has had a total of 16 days sick in 2024.
Jeff has had just 4 of those 16 days paid at SSP (approx £22 a day)

Boris has 1 day off for first absence.
Boris has 2 days off for second absence. 22 22
Boris has 4 days off for third absence. 22 22 22 22
Boris has 3 days off for fourth absence. 22 22 22

Boris has had a total of 10 days sick in 2024.
Boris has had 9 of those 10 days paid at SSP (approx £22 a day)

Jeff was off work 60% more than Boris, but Boris got paid approx £240 less than Jeff. WTF!

A fairer way to have done it would be SSP for the first 2 days of each and every sickness.

+ give bonuses to those who go a whole year without a single day off sick.

How does.SSP show on our pay slip when on sick? I'm currently sick and this week's payslip shows I've been paid just £215, 37 hr contract , can't see SSP any where?

[DaveF14]

Sickness policy still doesn't seem to be working..

One has been off sick regularly in our office. Phoned in one morning sick and then seen at half 2 (still in his contracted hours for the day) staggering past the office to go to the pub along the road.....

Another I see regularly driving and taking his dogs for a walk. F*** all wrong with him because he spat the dummy over xmas because he couldn't handle it...

Get rid. The workforce has got weak.

[Chelseablue]

The ppl who have taken the p,,, have really shafted the rest of us big time .