35 hour Monday to Friday

gb93 · Post by **gb93** » 15 May 2020, 18:23

Posted similar topic few years ago but got shot down by the div rep if I remember rightly.
If it is glaringly obvious letter volumes are falling admitted by his good himself today let's grab the bull by the horns & negotiate a 5 day letter delivery in the pay deal.
But let's get some major concessions in return for giving up 6 day uso
Bottom line no compulsory redundancies & 35 hour monday to friday & see where things go from there.

Grumpyoldmailman · Post by **Grumpyoldmailman** » 15 May 2020, 18:46

So what’s your plan for the reserves and delivering the parcels. Your going to get some miles under your belt just doing letters all day.

gb93 · Post by **gb93** » 15 May 2020, 18:52

Grumpyoldmailman wrote:So what’s your plan for the reserves and delivering the parcels. Your going to get some miles under your belt just doing letters all day.

Delivery model as is now delivering letters & parcels together mon to fri
Just packets on Saturday & maybe Sunday too done on a voluntary overtime basis & some weekend parcel duties.
MTSF for the redundancies purely voluntary on good terms

scoobydo79 · Post by **scoobydo79** » 15 May 2020, 20:57

What happens to the floating day off cover posties

mags999 · Post by **mags999** » 15 May 2020, 21:09

they get the jobs of the ones taking voluntary redundancy hopefully on decent terms or there may be a problem

scoobydo79 · Post by **scoobydo79** » 15 May 2020, 21:23

Then they are screwed

Post by **chocolatesaltyballs** » 15 May 2020, 22:35

scoobydo79 wrote:Then they are screwed

Why so? It should all be done on seniority and I'm sure there are plenty of them who have a good few years under their belts. If there are no VRs or EVRs then those who get displaced from their duties should get the next available duty based on seniority of there should be a resign.

k979aaa · Post by **k979aaa** » 16 May 2020, 01:22

chocolatesaltyballs wrote:
scoobydo79 wrote:Then they are screwed
Why so? It should all be done on seniority and I'm sure there are plenty of them who have a good few years under their belts. If there are no VRs or EVRs then those who get displaced from their duties should get the next available duty based on seniority of there should be a resign.

RM only pay EVR VR for managers and for CEO's they pay resignations as well.

Grumpyoldmailman · Post by **Grumpyoldmailman** » 16 May 2020, 06:34

mags999 wrote:they get the jobs of the ones taking voluntary redundancy hopefully on decent terms or there may be a problem

You make people redundant if the job is redundant not to just move other people into the job.

Woody Guthrie · Post by **Woody Guthrie** » 16 May 2020, 07:11

Grumpyoldmailman wrote:You make people redundant if the job is redundant not to just move other people into the job.

That's not how it works.
We are all the same grade, all do the same role and all have the same job. Day off cover or annual leave reserves are not separate jobs in themselves.

When voluntary redundancies are required they are done on seniority.

clashcityrocker · Post by **clashcityrocker** » 16 May 2020, 07:17

Woody Guthrie wrote:
Grumpyoldmailman wrote:You make people redundant if the job is redundant not to just move other people into the job.

When voluntary redundancies are required they are done on seniority.

I think what he means is if you offer VRs to 10 full timers, you can't then make 10 part timers up to full time to replace them.
If you offer 10 full timers VR, then those 10 full time jobs have gone.

gb93 · Post by **gb93** » 16 May 2020, 07:58

Say 10 most senior FT take EVR that's 380 hours out of office.
Make 10 most senior say 30 hour PT up to FT uses up 80 of them hours.
RM has saved 300 hours plus the added payments senior posties usually have.
Now could change them figures to 35 hour ft but still big savings.
So veteran posties that maybe be struggling get a nice pay off younger pt get made up to ft.
Advantages there for royal mail & posties working for royal mail.
And as I have said absolutely no compulsory redundancies & just starting point to negotiate

clashcityrocker · Post by **clashcityrocker** » 16 May 2020, 08:04

gb93 wrote:Say 10 most senior FT take EVR that's 380 hours out of office.
Make 10 most senior say 30 hour PT up to FT uses up 80 of them hours.
RM has saved 300 hours plus the added payments senior posties usually have.
Now could change them figures to 35 hour ft but still big savings.
So veteran posties that maybe be struggling get a nice pay off younger pt get made up to ft.
Advantages there for royal mail & posties working for royal mail.
And as I have said absolutely no compulsory redundancies & just starting point to negotiate

As I understand it you cannot replace a full time VR by making someone up to full time.
You can only offer VR if that job has gone for good.
The problems most offices have is a surplus of indoor hours.

In your scenario you now have 10 duties (outdoor) uncovered.
You now need to recruit 10 p/t posties on a part time contract to cover those duties.

Offering 10 VRs to full time posties only takes out 130 hours if the outdoor needs to be replaced by 10 x 25 hour contracts.

gb93 · Post by **gb93** » 16 May 2020, 08:50

I was only using example of ten because that's what you used.
And was using best case scenario in case of pt being moved up it is something that could be negotiated.
Now say you have 8 float duties in an office that would go if you work mon-fri you offer 8 evr on seniority so no one loses job against will.
8 ft jobs that will be filled by the 8 floats in theory & no need to hire any more to replace them.
So 8 × 38(35)hours saved.
Some of them floats get made up to ft still loads of hours saved

Woody Guthrie · Post by **Woody Guthrie** » 16 May 2020, 09:14

clashcityrocker wrote:
Woody Guthrie wrote:
Grumpyoldmailman wrote:You make people redundant if the job is redundant not to just move other people into the job.

When voluntary redundancies are required they are done on seniority.
I think what he means is if you offer VRs to 10 full timers, you can't then make 10 part timers up to full time to replace them.
If you offer 10 full timers VR, then those 10 full time jobs have gone.

I think we're talking about people losing jobs not offices losing hours.

The "rule" that you can't replace some of the hours that you make redundant is usually based on the presumption that an office is looking to reduce its budgeted hours not simply its headcount. In some offices that might not be the case.

That as you point out is a more complex issue but a move to Mon-Fri and a 35 hour week would inevitable lead to mass revisions across the business and then it is simply down to a reallocation of resources so some part-timers would inevitably be made up to full-time hours.

There is obviously no legal barrier to re-introducing hours you've taken out due to redundancy as long as those hours are not specific to any role not that I think it would be that common.