CWU going same way as NUM ?

[Wullie10]

Some time back I said the CWU were heading for the same fate as the national union of mineworkers... extinction.
I was slagged off naturally and that's fine. But it's a serious question. With an ageing workforce that'll soon vanish replaced by basically a few new starters on far inferior conditions. I haven't met one single new recruit who wanted to join the union. The old guard will dissappear and a new short term job , gig comapny will appear. It's certainly not a career any more.
It's sad but the old world is vanishing quickly. The Union are toothless in this new era. That's not a criticism at all , it's how I see it. Many will probably disagree, I hope they are correct but just can't see it.

[Jonathan Alsatian]

I've worked for RM for just under a year and I am a union member. I suspect most new starters don't join the union though. I wasn't looking for a short term gig economy job either. If I'd wanted one of them I'd have gone to Amazon or delivered food in my own car for just eat or uber eats. I was hoping to stay here long term. Not so sure now though.

I've never asked my fellow newbies if they are in the union. Given that they are totally unaware that there is a two tier pay structure and they have no idea that they are on inferior terms, I suspect they are not union members and they have zero interest or curiosity about how RM works. Your probably correct that in these modern times unions are seen as irrelevant by a lot of people. Thats sad. But also the truth is companies can do what they want these days, unions have very little power anywhere nowadays with the exception of maybe the RMT they've all got no teeth.

I joined the union purely for protection from dishonest or unscrupulous managers stitching me up during my probation period. But as that's over now, and my managers are mostly fairly decent (with a couple of exceptions) I might as well cancel my subs if it becomes apparent that there is not going to be any levelling up of new contracts. Even the union rep told me hes lost all faith and wonders if they've had a brown envelope from EP group. More likely they just have no negotiating power and get walked all over by the company big wigs

[Hitcher]

They're not exclusively for postal workers though.

[Jonathan Alsatian]

I know they represent BT and Openreach workers too. Are they better thought of by those workers? I'd say those companies treat their staff better than RM do, and pay their staff equally, so its a whole different attitude from the members over there about how well the union are doing for them

[tramssirhc]

Some time back I said the CWU were heading for the same fate as the national union of mineworkers... extinction.
I was slagged off naturally and that's fine. But it's a serious question. With an ageing workforce that'll soon vanish replaced by basically a few new starters on far inferior conditions. I haven't met one single new recruit who wanted to join the union. The old guard will dissappear and a new short term job , gig comapny will appear. It's certainly not a career any more.
It's sad but the old world is vanishing quickly. The Union are toothless in this new era. That's not a criticism at all , it's how I see it. Many will probably disagree, I hope they are correct but just can't see it.

There is no comparison. The NUM still continues to function and pays it's bills. The demise of the CWU is self-inflicted through selfishness and greed. Following the 90's restructuring of the Union the sole focus of the CWU has been protecting a clique of full time release officials at the expense of the membership. Alongside that is the bankruptcy forced on the CWU through it's pensions liability. The CWU simply refuses to listen. The NUM is not in that position and even today is not seeking mergers with any Union that will take it in.

[Trumanity]

Yes. A still functioning and extant Trades Union.

[clashcityrocker]

How many members does the NUM have?

[tramssirhc]

How many members does the NUM have?

Less than the CWU yet it's not bankrupt like the CWU, both financially and industrially.

[Tman]

I know they represent BT and Openreach workers too. Are they better thought of by those workers? I'd say those companies treat their staff better than RM do, and pay their staff equally, so its a whole different attitude from the members over there about how well the union are doing for them

No comparison there. BT etc workforce are classed as skilled, so not so easy to play the old "there's the door if you're not happy" game.

The NUM still continues to function and pays it's bills

Define "function". An annual get-together for drinks, sandwiches and chat about the good old days doesn't constitute a working viable union.

[tramssirhc]

I know they represent BT and Openreach workers too. Are they better thought of by those workers? I'd say those companies treat their staff better than RM do, and pay their staff equally, so its a whole different attitude from the members over there about how well the union are doing for them

No comparison there. BT etc workforce are classed as skilled, so not so easy to play the old "there's the door if you're not happy" game.

The NUM still continues to function and pays it's bills

Define "function". An annual get-together for drinks, sandwiches and chat about the good old days doesn't constitute a working viable union.

Sounds just like the CWU. The clique meeting in secret. It really doesn't constitute a working viable union.

[Mr Rush]

I know they represent BT and Openreach workers too. Are they better thought of by those workers?

The last BT strike partly overlapped with our industrial action, terminating a month before our's fizzled out in December 2022. I recall there was plenty of grumbling about the deal the CWU extracted from BT.

The change in tone from the wider CWU is palpable: it told BT members this week that they'd not get a better deal, and failure to agree it would result in another ballot for industrial action to start next year. Previously, it did a lot of chest beating about how it would hold BT to account [...]

The disquiet from the telecoms side and the simultaneous legal nixing of our November dates really fed into a tremendous confidence in the CWU's abilities.

[clashcityrocker]

How many members does the NUM have?

Less than the CWU yet it's not bankrupt like the CWU, both financially and industrially.

When you say "less than the CWU", how many is that?

[POSTMAN]

The National Union of Mineworkers (NUM) had a peak membership of approximately 950,000 in 1920, but by 2023 had fallen to 196 members. Recent figures show the number of active members was around 100 in 2015, a figure also cited in 2018.

[postslippete]

The NUM was crushed by state policy in the 80s and industrial collapse. The CWU's decline has largely been self-inflicted and if RM continues down the parcel only, gig style economy route the CWU could find itself in a similar death spiral, especially if there are fewer members and less bargaining power.

However, postal services still exist so its survival is still largely in its own hands. Its future depends on how it can adapt to organising the new entrants, fighting for fair contracts and shedding its old bureaucracy that has alienated many of its members.

[yellowbelly]

From a quite critical article of post-strike Arthur Scargill in the (left leaning?) New Statesman this year:

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2 ... ng-camelot

The NUM, which boasted 250,000 members when Scargill was elected president, now represents fewer than 90. And Chris Kitchen, its current general secretary, believes it will be forced to close before it can commemorate the strike’s 50th anniversary. “Just looking at the age of membership and the cost of being a trade union, it’s not sustainable,” he tells me. Now, he explains, with every major coal mine shut and new mining licences banned, the NUM’s membership is largely made up of administrative staff, health and safety officers and legacy members. It still campaigns for improved pensions and compensation for its former members, but that won’t sustain it. “We may turn into some sort of association or charity to preserve the NUM’s legacy,” Kitchen explains. In fact, he tells me that plans for that transition are already underway, the final dissolution of a union that, in 1922, numbered over a million strong.