Self preservation???

[Weetrogg2]

The only reason I can think as to why the CWU executive would actively campaign for us to accept this appalling deal is to save themselves.

Automatic check off for subs from payroll survives as does the millions of pounds worth of paid release time for senior reps

Who pays the Divisional Reps wages He who pays the piper names the tune🪈🪈🪈

[cornstar18]

You're right. Simon Thompson couldn't bring down cwu involvement, but we can... Great...

[Mickeybrowneyes]

The only reason I can think as to why the CWU executive would actively campaign for us to accept this appalling deal is to save themselves.

Automatic check off for subs from payroll survives as does the millions of pounds worth of paid release time for senior reps

Who pays the Divisional Reps wages He who pays the piper names the tune🪈🪈🪈

Have you ever considered the fact that what the union are saying could in fact be true.
Yes the rhetoric changed drastically after Christmas, but the company had been taken to the brink.
The company were not going to budge even though Christmas was an almighty failure.
They obviously thought there would be some movement as we all did. The company dug their heels in and we are where we are now.
Many concessions have been made by the company since November.
Realism has to play a part when they are making rational decisions that affect the lives of the second biggest employer in country.
What do you suggest we do now?
Strike though the Summer. What will that do for the confidence of existing customers.
They are getting rid of planes, that.seems certain whatever we do. Keeping it to an hour (hopefully) is the best we can hope for plus family friendly options.
They didn't budge in the busiest period of the year, what is the likelihood they will budge during the summer.
Maybe some of the rhetoric is regrettable now we see the outcome but I don't buy this notion being spouted about the integrity of the union.
When a company is adamant on change the union can only really mitigate the damage to our lives and terms and conditions.
The union isn't there to make policy but steer the company in a direction that makes it the more bareable for the employees while fighting for decent pay and conditions.
When taking the bittiness of the dispute into consideration and the cost of living -state of the company's finances- is it against the realms of possibilities this is the best we can hope for at this moment.
I still trust them personally.

[postieblueshirt]

The only reason I can think as to why the CWU executive would actively campaign for us to accept this appalling deal is to save themselves.

Automatic check off for subs from payroll survives as does the millions of pounds worth of paid release time for senior reps

Who pays the Divisional Reps wages He who pays the piper names the tune🪈🪈🪈

Have you ever considered the fact that what the union are saying could in fact be true.
Yes the rhetoric changed drastically after Christmas, but the company had been taken to the brink.
The company were not going to budge even though Christmas was an almighty failure.
They obviously thought there would be some movement as we all did. The company dug their heels in and we are where we are now.
Many concessions have been made by the company since November.
Realism has to play a part when they are making rational decisions that affect the lives of the second biggest employer in country.
What do you suggest we do now?
Strike though the Summer. What will that do for the confidence of existing customers.
They are getting rid of planes, that.seems certain whatever we do. Keeping it to an hour (hopefully) is the best we can hope for plus family friendly options.
They didn't budge in the busiest period of the year, what is the likelihood they will budge during the summer.
Maybe some of the rhetoric is regrettable now we see the outcome but I don't buy this notion being spouted about the integrity of the union.
When a company is adamant on change the union can only really mitigate the damage to our lives and terms and conditions.
The union isn't there to make policy but steer the company in a direction that makes it the more bareable for the employees while fighting for decent pay and conditions.
When taking the bittiness of the dispute into consideration and the cost of living -state of the company's finances- is it against the realms of possibilities this is the best we can hope for at this moment.
I still trust them personally.

Unfortunately for us royal mail and the union created the bitterness themselves it became Thompson v ward.I can't stand Thompson either and to think that he believes he's won some kind of victory is extremely annoying.Do I think the union put this deal to us to save there place yes I do.

[Mickeybrowneyes]

The only reason I can think as to why the CWU executive would actively campaign for us to accept this appalling deal is to save themselves.

Automatic check off for subs from payroll survives as does the millions of pounds worth of paid release time for senior reps

Who pays the Divisional Reps wages He who pays the piper names the tune🪈🪈🪈

Have you ever considered the fact that what the union are saying could in fact be true.
Yes the rhetoric changed drastically after Christmas, but the company had been taken to the brink.
The company were not going to budge even though Christmas was an almighty failure.
They obviously thought there would be some movement as we all did. The company dug their heels in and we are where we are now.
Many concessions have been made by the company since November.
Realism has to play a part when they are making rational decisions that affect the lives of the second biggest employer in country.
What do you suggest we do now?
Strike though the Summer. What will that do for the confidence of existing customers.
They are getting rid of planes, that.seems certain whatever we do. Keeping it to an hour (hopefully) is the best we can hope for plus family friendly options.
They didn't budge in the busiest period of the year, what is the likelihood they will budge during the summer.
Maybe some of the rhetoric is regrettable now we see the outcome but I don't buy this notion being spouted about the integrity of the union.
When a company is adamant on change the union can only really mitigate the damage to our lives and terms and conditions.
The union isn't there to make policy but steer the company in a direction that makes it the more bareable for the employees while fighting for decent pay and conditions.
When taking the bittiness of the dispute into consideration and the cost of living -state of the company's finances- is it against the realms of possibilities this is the best we can hope for at this moment.
I still trust them personally.

Unfortunately for us royal mail and the union created the bitterness themselves it became Thompson v ward.I can't stand Thompson either and to think that he believes he's won some kind of victory is extremely annoying.Do I think the union put this deal to us to save there place yes I do.

That is fair enough, it seems to be the view of many.
Personally I don't buy it for the reasons I gave earlier.
It was Royal Mail/Simon Thompson that created the bitterness not the union.
Do we so easily forget the lies on live broadcast/parliament, the baiting of the union waving confidential material at the camera belittling the integrity of negotiations, and the appalling treatment of suspended reps on spurious charges and lies that damage their characters.... (Some now dismissed)
We were all bitter by their behaviour not just Dave Ward.
And if you wasn't, you should have been.

[scotchy1962]

Immaterial of what reasons you believe for the union recommending this to the membership, you have eyes and a brain use them, read through the agreement and make a balanced decision.
Dont listen to the mob noise in the background, thats their own opinion, hopefully they have looked at it and made a balanced decision, you are more than capable of thinking for yourself.
The union are putting it out there because they believe its the best they can get, i personally dont but again i had a good look at it and made my own mind up, "Self preservation" is not what we are going to vote on so ignore the headline look at it for what it is.
Its a No from me, but make your own mind up.

[Weetrogg2]

The only demands that have been withdrawn by RM completely are the ones regarding union funds and paid release.

The CWU leadership should take the line that this RMs final offer , it’s not good, so you the members decide without a formal recommendation.

Instead they have chosen to actively recommend this deal as some kind of victory, say the deal is good and expect us reps to tell our members to vote yes.

Everything we are now being told is “great” about this deal was on offer last September/October. Look online or at some of the literature put out by the union they all say things like below

A no strings pay rise - Now we agree the 2% imposed

Cannot except reduction to Sick/IHR/VR terms - now we agree with all of those whilst at the same time managing to worsen the attendance procedure

No to seasonal working - now we agree

No to later starts/finishes - now we agree

No to two tier work force - now we agree to the extent that we’re actually going to make it a grade

No to flexibility - now we agree

The list is not exhaustive. This was on offer in September so why was it such a bad deal then but it is a fantastic victory now

It’s by far and away the worst deal I’ve seen in 26 years. I will be voting no and will not try to sell this agreement.

[CRIBMAD]

The only demands that have been withdrawn by RM completely are the ones regarding union funds and paid release.

The CWU leadership should take the line that this RMs final offer , it’s not good, so you the members decide without a formal recommendation.

Instead they have chosen to actively recommend this deal as some kind of victory, say the deal is good and expect us reps to tell our members to vote yes.

Everything we are now being told is “great” about this deal was on offer last September/October. Look online or at some of the literature put out by the union they all say things like below

A no strings pay rise - Now we agree the 2% imposed

Cannot except reduction to Sick/IHR/VR terms - now we agree with all of those whilst at the same time managing to worsen the attendance procedure

No to seasonal working - now we agree

No to later starts/finishes - now we agree

No to two tier work force - now we agree to the extent that we’re actually going to make it a grade

No to flexibility - now we agree

The list is not exhaustive. This was on offer in September so why was it such a bad deal then but it is a fantastic victory now

It’s by far and away the worst deal I’ve seen in 26 years. I will be voting no and will not try to sell this agreement.

HERE HERE

[Mickeybrowneyes]

The only demands that have been withdrawn by RM completely are the ones regarding union funds and paid release.

The CWU leadership should take the line that this RMs final offer , it’s not good, so you the members decide without a formal recommendation.

Instead they have chosen to actively recommend this deal as some kind of victory, say the deal is good and expect us reps to tell our members to vote yes.

Everything we are now being told is “great” about this deal was on offer last September/October. Look online or at some of the literature put out by the union they all say things like below

A no strings pay rise - Now we agree the 2% imposed

Cannot except reduction to Sick/IHR/VR terms - now we agree with all of those whilst at the same time managing to worsen the attendance procedure

No to seasonal working - now we agree

No to later starts/finishes - now we agree

No to two tier work force - now we agree to the extent that we’re actually going to make it a grade

No to flexibility - now we agree

The list is not exhaustive. This was on offer in September so why was it such a bad deal then but it is a fantastic victory now

It’s by far and away the worst deal I’ve seen in 26 years. I will be voting no and will not try to sell this agreement.

I appreciate your analysis but I would argue it is slightly more nuanced than that.
They have moved the company on all the points to some degree... To say not enough is a fair argument but to say it is exactly the same isn't really true.
Also don't forget at that time they were looking to outsource all our oversized to the gig economy..
Annualised hours is nothing like seasonal working.
I actually think that is sensible planning by the company to align our hours with the workload.
(As long as the walks are achievable on a average day, I know for many it isn't right now).
It should eradicate the headache of lapsing.
One hour later starts are nothing like three hours and them offices that have moved times already in EA led revisions can argue the case that their times already reflect this.
I know it's not a great deal, it would be a lie to claim it is, however to say this is a capitulation is also a lie.

[Weetrogg2]

I think a lot of the agreement is basically a capitulation particularly the sick/IHR and VR and that’s why I can’t vote for it.

The point I’m trying to make is it’s a bad agreement so why are the executive trying to dress it up as a victory?

I think they should just be honest and take the line that’s it’s a disappointing agreement but we’re dealing with a dishonest management, this is the offer that they put to us and we’ve now got no choice but to put to you - without endorsing it.

It’s annoying everybody I speak to that the CWU are claiming this as a victory.

[mags999]

Yes the union haven't even mentioned vr payments that have been decimated I've paid my subs for 35 years and feel let down badly by this and ihr benefits which everyone is going to need eventually because very few will make it to 67 in deliveries believe me the union should hang there heads in shame on that score

[Mickeybrowneyes]

I think a lot of the agreement is basically a capitulation particularly the sick/IHR and VR and that’s why I can’t vote for it.

The point I’m trying to make is it’s a bad agreement so why are the executive trying to dress it up as a victory?

I think they should just be honest and take the line that’s it’s a disappointing agreement but we’re dealing with a dishonest management, this is the offer that they put to us and we’ve now got no choice but to put to you - without endorsing it.

It’s annoying everybody I speak to that the CWU are claiming this as a victory.

Point taken, but i suppose it feels like a victory after the attacks they have been under and the level of change they initially wanted.

[Shirtbuttons]

Who cares ? Time to throw the towel in I’m afraid. The amount of good hard working staff that have left would have been unimaginable a couple of years ago. The staff that are left are finished. They are at the bottom of the barrel now and are all looking for alternative jobs. I can honestly say everyone I talk to wants out. They hate it. There are massive recruitment problems on the horizon. Word is out there that this isn’t the job it once was. Just remember to turn the lights off. It will be very interesting to see who is delivering letters in a couple of years time?

[dazzler123]

The only demands that have been withdrawn by RM completely are the ones regarding union funds and paid release.

The CWU leadership should take the line that this RMs final offer , it’s not good, so you the members decide without a formal recommendation.

Instead they have chosen to actively recommend this deal as some kind of victory, say the deal is good and expect us reps to tell our members to vote yes.

Everything we are now being told is “great” about this deal was on offer last September/October. Look online or at some of the literature put out by the union they all say things like below

A no strings pay rise - Now we agree the 2% imposed

Cannot except reduction to Sick/IHR/VR terms - now we agree with all of those whilst at the same time managing to worsen the attendance procedure

No to seasonal working - now we agree

No to later starts/finishes - now we agree

No to two tier work force - now we agree to the extent that we’re actually going to make it a grade

No to flexibility - now we agree

The list is not exhaustive. This was on offer in September so why was it such a bad deal then but it is a fantastic victory now

It’s by far and away the worst deal I’ve seen in 26 years. I will be voting no and will not try to sell this agreement.

I appreciate your analysis but I would argue it is slightly more nuanced than that.
They have moved the company on all the points to some degree... To say not enough is a fair argument but to say it is exactly the same isn't really true.
Also don't forget at that time they were looking to outsource all our oversized to the gig economy..
Annualised hours is nothing like seasonal working.
I actually think that is sensible planning by the company to align our hours with the workload.
(As long as the walks are achievable on a average day, I know for many it isn't right now).
It should eradicate the headache of lapsing.
One hour later starts are nothing like three hours and them offices that have moved times already in EA led revisions can argue the case that their times already reflect this.
I know it's not a great deal, it would be a lie to claim it is, however to say this is a capitulation is also a lie.

they are absolutely tonedeaf and have the subtelty of a sledgehammer to what a sensible planned working day is. Lapsing will be eradicated as the duty will not exist, it will be absorbed into an already currently failing duty. Lets not confuse people moaning about the good old days with being under mental/physical stress. The old fella next to me is in for a double hernia tomorrow

[SWIM]

Who cares ? Time to throw the towel in I’m afraid. The amount of good hard working staff that have left would have been unimaginable a couple of years ago. The staff that are left are finished. They are at the bottom of the barrel now and are all looking for alternative jobs. I can honestly say everyone I talk to wants out. They hate it. There are massive recruitment problems on the horizon. Word is out there that this isn’t the job it once was. Just remember to turn the lights off. It will be very interesting to see who is delivering letters in a couple of years time?