Update to members from the London Divisional Committee

[POSTMAN]

[pieoftheday]

With regards to the bit about completing your duty even if it takes you past your finishing time, if we have a finishing time how can you be forced to work past it? Would we have a start and finish time? If it's a really heavy week will be working 50hrs if forced to complete? It doesn't make any sense to me, does it to anyone?

[2yearpostie]

IE you will be moved to salary monthly, so you do the workload you have in an unspecified amount of time, its a way of abolishing overtime (as long as they stay above min wage for hours worked)

[pieoftheday]

How does that work when RM reckon they can claw back hours from summer so we work longer in winter?

[2yearpostie]

How does that work when RM reckon they can claw back hours from summer so we work longer in winter?

They must have figures from actuals that some runners are getting back in say 4 hours from a 6 hour contract certain days of the year, so they owe those 2 hours (per day) to the company as under the current system theyve already been paid for them even though theyve done nothing to earn the money theyve been paid.

[pieoftheday]

If we move to a salary as opposed to an hourly rate, you can't finish early or late , no claw back of hour and no OT ?

[POSTMAN]

With regards to the bit about completing your duty even if it takes you past your finishing time, if we have a finishing time how can you be forced to work past it? Would we have a start and finish time? If it's a really heavy week will be working 50hrs if forced to complete? It doesn't make any sense to me, does it to anyone?

RMCtv : No cut offs - ever - You take it out - you deliver it all.

[Woody Guthrie]

With regards to the bit about completing your duty even if it takes you past your finishing time, if we have a finishing time how can you be forced to work past it?

It's basically a compulsory overtime clause combined with an annualised hours clause.
Neither is unlawful.
If they are agreed.

There are three ways they can be "agreed", through individual agreement, by collective bargaining or by the "fire and rehire" method.

Unlike some of the other proposals they can't simply be imposed like the pay rise although you could argue that fire and rehire is practically the same thing.

[2yearpostie]

What is salaried hours work for minimum wage purposes?
Salaried hours work can exist in any sector or occupation. Many office workers, public sector workers and workers at large companies are paid on the basis of a salaried hours contract.

If you employ someone to work only during some parts of the year but you pay them an annual salary in instalments throughout the year then they are a salaried hours worker. For example, school cleaning, catering or caretaking staff are often paid a regular weekly or monthly amount throughout the year, although they work in term time only.

Salaried hours work requires all the following to apply to a worker:

they are entitled under their contract to be paid for a set basic number of hours in a year
they are entitled under their contract to an annual salary for those basic hours
they are not entitled under their contract to any other payment for their basic hours other than the salary, or a performance bonus or salary premium (see below)
they are paid not more often than weekly and not less often than monthly in equal instalments – for example, monthly, 4-weekly, fortnightly or weekly payments. Alternatively, they can be paid in monthly instalments that vary but add up to the same amount in each quarter.
So long as the instalments remain the same, the fact that workers actually work more hours in some weeks or months and less in others does not prevent them being salaried hours workers.

Some variations in the weekly or monthly instalments are ignored for this purpose, where paying in equal instalments may not be practicable. For example, if the variation results from:

payment of a performance bonus
payment of a salary premium, such as for working on a bank holiday
a pay increase
pay for working hours in addition to the basic hours, such as separate overtime payments
the worker starting or leaving part-way through the week or month



IE if Rm set you on a 30 hour contract but over the average of a set amount of time youve only worked 25hours a week you owe them 5 hours.

[pieoftheday]

Ta Postman and Woody. Like many in delivery I rarely finish early in the 'lighter' summer period so I couldn't be forced to work past my time in the heavier periods? Of course RM could be looking at ways to somehow manipulate the workload over different parts of the Year?

[pieoftheday]

What is salaried hours work for minimum wage purposes?
Salaried hours work can exist in any sector or occupation. Many office workers, public sector workers and workers at large companies are paid on the basis of a salaried hours contract.

If you employ someone to work only during some parts of the year but you pay them an annual salary in instalments throughout the year then they are a salaried hours worker. For example, school cleaning, catering or caretaking staff are often paid a regular weekly or monthly amount throughout the year, although they work in term time only.

Salaried hours work requires all the following to apply to a worker:

they are entitled under their contract to be paid for a set basic number of hours in a year
they are entitled under their contract to an annual salary for those basic hours
they are not entitled under their contract to any other payment for their basic hours other than the salary, or a performance bonus or salary premium (see below)
they are paid not more often than weekly and not less often than monthly in equal instalments – for example, monthly, 4-weekly, fortnightly or weekly payments. Alternatively, they can be paid in monthly instalments that vary but add up to the same amount in each quarter.
So long as the instalments remain the same, the fact that workers actually work more hours in some weeks or months and less in others does not prevent them being salaried hours workers.

Some variations in the weekly or monthly instalments are ignored for this purpose, where paying in equal instalments may not be practicable. For example, if the variation results from:

payment of a performance bonus
payment of a salary premium, such as for working on a bank holiday
a pay increase
pay for working hours in addition to the basic hours, such as separate overtime payments
the worker starting or leaving part-way through the week or month



IE if Rm set you on a 30 hour contract but over the average of a set amount of time youve only worked 25hours a week you owe them 5 hours.

Thanks, I see what you mean, however as I just posted(get it) if you don't make time anywhere there's nothing to owe

[Woody Guthrie]

Ta Postman and Woody. Like many in delivery I rarely finish early in the 'lighter' summer period so I couldn't be forced to work past my time in the heavier periods? Of course RM could be looking at ways to somehow manipulate the workload over different parts of the Year?

Personality straight off the bat I don't think it's workable, how serious they are about implementing is up for debate but I doubt there's anywhere near the level of real savings in the summer they believe there to be especially if you remove any motivation from finishing early. It's also immensely complex with well over 100,000 employees over a full year at 3 different levels.

The only way this could be implemented is alongside some pretty harsh performance standards both indoor and outdoor because removing the carrot of finishing early only leaves the stick. This in my mind would get very messy very quickly for everyone involved which is one of the reasons I think it's a diversionary response to the union's demand for a no strings inflation level pay rise.

However I don't rule out the other option. just plain incompetence and ineptitude and a complete disconnect from the delivery role.

Likewise the idea that you can just move the whole network forward up to 3 hours as if it's just a shop also falls into the so complex and costly it would end in tears bracket.

[pieoftheday]

I wonder if anyone is airing their doubts and frustrations over these proposals on Workplace

[daveyeff]

has anyone noticed, of all the times we've been ready to be balloted, or about to start I/A, there has always been a lot of negativity towards going on strike or people shouting it down as a poor choice of option and there has to be another way or reasons to not strike?.....yet this time i've seen very little or none of that this time around. seems more people are on board with this dispute than ever before. or am i imagining it?

[yellowbelly]

has anyone noticed, of all the times we've been ready to be balloted, or about to start I/A, there has always been a lot of negativity towards going on strike or people shouting it down as a poor choice of option and there has to be another way or reasons to not strike?.....yet this time i've seen very little or none of that this time around. seems more people are on board with this dispute than ever before. or am i imagining it?

Agree with that davey - however there are one or two that are really, really worried about striking because of the impact of losing even
just a day's pay, particularly PT'ers who are on minimal contracts who are only just keeping afloat.