How we Square the circle

[TopperGas]

The choice is quite simple now, there is no more wriggle room.

Either accept the deal which the CWU have agreed too, and is the best deal that will ever be on the table, or have the deal imposed by Royal Mail.

Time is precious and time is money, the more this impasse drags on the worse it will get for all postal workers and the Company itself.

I'm pretty certain RM can't just impose the sickness and seasonal variations without facing claims from its employees. Forget time being precious as once these changes are made we'll have them for ever not just a few months.

[yellowbelly]

...........

Seasonal variations is not contractual and let’s be honest my original contact was 43 hours and it had changed many times over the years and not every duty works their contracted hours now over a week as longs, shorts , shorter Saturdays and wallingtons all balance their hours over a much longer period than a week.

..............

Martin, from the quotes from the agreement (see below) please clarify if a weeks leave taken this year (23/24) after the seasonal
variations start in the Autumn is going to cost more minutes (2 hours for a F/T)?

If so, why did the union negotiators not insist that in the interim until the new leave year
24/25 starts, a weeks leave would 'cost' the same in hours this year irrespective when taken?

1.2.4 The first deployment of seasonal variation will be in Autumn 2023 and will require the
additional time to be worked before the standard duty current start times. The impact
of this will be reviewed to assess if it creates issues such as instances of running out
of work between wave 1 and wave 2 arrivals impacting indoor productivity.

1.2.8 Consistent with current agreements Annual leave will be booked in hours versus the
“planned” hours of the season. A typical full timer would have 35 hours deducted for
a full-time week of leave in Summer and 39 in Peak. Exact deductions would be
applied on a daily level based on the work schedules in PSP. Sick leave continues to
be recorded in instances / days.

[guardianangel]

Space why did they spend months try to reach an agreement if they were simply going to impose all the change including committing to no further mail centre closures for the lifespan of the agreement. When they wanted to close 5 mail centres and the project leads had signed Non disclosure agreements.

The board know that the only way this company survives is if there is an agreement and the change is jointly delivered.

The delay in the ballot is that there are still some managers who have been let off the leash to do what they wanted do like the agreement and are trying to sabotage it by their continue refusal to resolve revisions and quality of service.

This need to be resolved.

Anyone voting yes or no should be crystal clear when doing so that the company cannot survive without Change and cost reduction.

The agreement agrees change but based on removing or modifying the impacts of the change.

A no vote will still result in change , the question is will it be agreed change , imposed change and will the company based on a no vote have to make a statement on their expected finances Which would be beyond serious.

Ive got a good cost reduction get the shareholders and bosses to give back the 100's of millions they gave themselves while leaving the bank account empty so now they come for reductions in our t's and c's and a pay cut to get the company back on an even keel,well sorry i'm not having it i'm voting NO and if it goes down it goes down,the workers will always get work but the public will never get back the service and shareholders and bosses won't be getting anything else from me, VOTE NO and stop these racketeers.

[Dorset Plodder]

Won't happen......

You're very sure of yourself SP. How can you be sure of ANYTHING in todays Royal Mail? How many of us would have thought the proposed changes wouldn't happen .... yet they have.

IF Royal Mail can be persuaded that something's going to save them money they'll bring it in.

[enskied]

Trooper seasonal variations or annualised hours is very standard in business where they do not have the same workload throughout the year. There is nothing illegal asking someone who is full time to work 24 minutes more or less during 30 weeks of the year and their pay will still be the same.

There will be an exemptions process which would be required under any fair process.

However how many of our members complain that they are absorbing to much in the summer ? One of the aims of seasonal variations is reduce the need for absorption and we will be using the ten pilot units to show this.

Utter shite.

[zz666]

If deployment of seasonal variation starts in October, for the tax year 23/24 we would be working two hours extra per week from October 2023 for about 3 months. From January 2024 to 5th April 2024 , we work 37 hours. I work out we will work more than the contracted hours for the current tax year. Is this overtime or what? Is it legal?

[yellowbelly]

If deployment of seasonal variation starts in October, for the tax year 23/24 we would be working two hours extra per week from October 2023 for about 3 months. From January 2024 to 5th April 2024 , we work 37 hours. I work out we will work more than the contracted hours for the current tax year. Is this overtime or what? Is it legal?

Yep - must admit hadn't thought of this but it seems this is the other side of the same coin I referred to earlier in the thread regarding hours deducted for holiday taken in the peak winter period - and Martin doesn't seem to want to answer......

[Wolf91]

Strange how the Union had just a dramatic U-turn.

It’s almost like Royal Mail blackmailed them.

You know, we will stop paying the Union through member’s wages. If they still want to pay, set up a direct debit…

Union knew they would lose most of their members. Got spooked. Gave in.

Ward & co don’t want to lose their lavish 100k per year lifestyles for doing F all.

[SpacePhoenix]

Strange how the Union had just a dramatic U-turn.

It’s almost like Royal Mail blackmailed them.

You know, we will stop paying the Union through member’s wages. If they still want to pay, set up a direct debit…

Union knew they would lose most of their members. Got spooked. Gave in.

Ward & co don’t want to lose their lavish 100k per year lifestyles for doing F all.

With the way it's going with so many members being pissed off with both the union and RM, the union might lose a very sizeable chunk of it's membership anyway

[Bosley]

"We are f#cked" it's a no from me, and a vote of no confidence in the current CWU leadership

[LouBarlow]

"We are f#cked" it's a no from me, and a vote of no confidence in the current CWU leadership

We certainly are f****d, but nobody here has yet put forward a case supporting the notion that voting no will make us un-f****d. We are in a terrible position either way but voting yes will lessen the damage considerably.

[Ad_bee]

"We are f#cked" it's a no from me, and a vote of no confidence in the current CWU leadership

We certainly are f****d, but nobody here has yet put forward a case supporting the notion that voting no will make us un-f****d. We are in a terrible position either way but voting yes will lessen the damage considerably.

Then its simply a matter of consent?

If we vote in favour of being 'effed' then we consented to it and its definately legal.

If we do not vote in favour of being 'effed' but we get 'effed' anyway, thats quite another matter and it might not be legal. Consent was not given.

The only way that voting yes can lessen the damage is due to the victim accepting that they asked for it and then got what they asked for.

I don't live like that.

I do not consent.

[redlen]

Think it about time SW19 started being honest with their members and refrain from this constant spin and deceit.
People are no longer swallowing it.

[77SAMPOST77]

"We are f#cked" it's a no from me, and a vote of no confidence in the current CWU leadership

We certainly are f****d, but nobody here has yet put forward a case supporting the notion that voting no will make us un-f****d. We are in a terrible position either way but voting yes will lessen the damage considerably.

More negativity from doom and gloom Lou ,
Voting no shows them we will not be bullied and pushed around ,

Lou why are you on here 24/7 have you nothing else to do with your life than spread you negativity , do you actually work for royal mail if so how have you got the time , you are on here 24/7 trying to scaremonger people into a yes vote .

[A2B]

"We are f#cked" it's a no from me, and a vote of no confidence in the current CWU leadership

We certainly are f****d, but nobody here has yet put forward a case supporting the notion that voting no will make us un-f****d. We are in a terrible position either way but voting yes will lessen the damage considerably.

It's simple for me, I will not vote yes to a deal I don't agree with just because it's viewed as the lesser of two evils