Change-I have seen some post that Royal Mail got everything they wanted , not true , the above was in their original proposal and some of this was in their best and final.

[Weetrogg2]

[John McDonald]

Never thought I'd see that day when a union would become a mouthpiece for an employer. No money? That's because they stole it all. Legalised theft through share dividends, bonuses, obscene wages for those at the top and even more obscene pay rises off the backs of OPGs braving a global pandemic.

CWU and any reps going on to the floor asking us to support this deal need to hang their heads in shame. The alternative? Let it burn then. Make Royal Mail an example of government-backed, privatised theft and destruction on a biblical scale of a national institution, so that this is never allowed to happen again anywhere.

[denhamhoop]

So much of the deals few positives have "Might do dependent on" attached to this it I have zero faith on any of it being adhered to for the staff's advantages. The fact many of the PEC are trying to sell this as a good deal tells me all you need to know. The moment Royal Mail threatened higher up Union Reps with actually having to go and do the job they are paid for and the large pay check they pick up Ward 143,000 over 5 times the pay of most of his Union members (Oh and a Monday to Friday 8 am to 4pm Duty Structure Nice if you can get It) .
I have always believed any deal Union Reps negotiate they should be tied to and actually serve at least a quarter of the time might see them fight a little harder. Anyhow I shall enjoy My Super Numerary status so basically stay on my actual duty I signed for 10 years ago at the whim and favour of my Shift Manager until he decides I have to work 5 out of 6 Sundays at Shift start time I can actually get there via Public Transport and all of this with a Record Union vote and Yes to help them
Dave Ward Andy Furey enjoy your 30 pieces of Silver and hopefully follow Judas's example

[k979aaa]

So in essence is we need to kick it back and to do that we need the wording of the ballot papers which will go out on the 17 of May. I am not a protagonist on here but a person of persuasion and that is my due that we right the wrongs done to us all in the time we are allowed!

[worktotime]

I have seen some post that Royal Mail got everything they wanted , not true , the above was in their original proposal and some of this was in their best and final.


we have changed the companies position on all the following

1. Up to 3 hour later starts. 17:00 last letter delivery.
2. Processing and network duties moving up to 3 hours later.
3. Compulsory Sundays paid at Monday to Saturday rates.
4. Owner drivers in Royal Mail pick up the growth in parcels.
5. Annualised hours linked to scan in scan out deciding your pay.
6. Flexi bank so you don’t have a finish time you have to complete. Additionally if you finished earlier determine by your PDA/ Siso then they could determine when that hours would be worked.
7. 5 Mail Centre closures.
8. Their best and final agreement only gave a no compulsory redundancies agreement until March 2023.
9. The future of Parcelforce would have been unlimited owner drivers.
10. All legacy allowances to be removed including RRIS which for over 30 thousand members would be a pay cut ranging from £6 to £35 per week.
11. Pay was dependent on the change being introduced. The lump sum was also dependent on change being introduced.
12 individual performance standards linked to PDA OA and 100 BSi indoors. Replacement of the NCI procedure to allow individuals to be sacked for poor performance.
13. No more disagreements or negotiations at local level on revisions etc.
14. New entrants not part of the collective bargaining and a stand alone workforce.


Yes the agreement is not perfect but anyone who believes Royal Mail are going to suddenly say there will be no change will have to think again.
[/quoZzzzzzzzs , same boring s**t and still trying to polish a turd , why dont you get back round the table patting each other on the backs saying what a great job youve all done for the members , or even better all of yeh get yourselfs on delivery and actually see what the job is like and then says its great .

[dazzler123]

Never thought I'd see that day when a union would become a mouthpiece for an employer. No money? That's because they stole it all. Legalised theft through share dividends, bonuses, obscene wages for those at the top and even more obscene pay rises off the backs of OPGs braving a global pandemic.

CWU and any reps going on to the floor asking us to support this deal need to hang their heads in shame. The alternative? Let it burn then. Make Royal Mail an example of government-backed, privatised theft and destruction on a biblical scale of a national institution, so that this is never allowed to happen again anywhere.

Think id be happier working where the goal is to deliver service to customers any means neccesary, and not for the lying corrupt bonus culture infested throughout the company. I dont see how this bad blood between staff and board ever heals

Administration will mean job losses? We are understaffed and people have left in droves anyway

We are currently frogs in boiling water

[KilledOff]

Never thought I'd see that day when a union would become a mouthpiece for an employer.

PEC? Employer?

Can't tell the difference.

[postslippete]

There is an equation here between 1. time outside 2. mail volume 3. distance walked.
If time outside stays the same or increase, and mail volume stays the same or decreases - then inevitably distance walked MUST increase. (or we're walking much slower or sitting somewhere). Joint issues are going to go through the roof and yet IHR and sick pay are being attacked. Very cynical of R.M and no self respecting union would allow it.

No self respecting union - except this one


The Union have been talking about a shorter working week in recent years and we have eventually come down to 37 hours.....only to be transported back to working even more hours again with 39 This is In spite of the fact that we will have less indoor work and our outdoor spans are likely to increase with clear evidence of staff that have been/are on long term sick due to bad backs, frozen shoulders, dodgy knees, tendonitis, foot problems and obviously mental issues directly related to the physical issues.

What measures will the company and the union put in place to try and prevent this? As for the company significantly reducing lapsing - they haven't actually said that it will gone completely, so that always leaves the door open for them to lapse regardless. Anyone who remembers when lapsing/absorption was just in place for the 4 weeks over summer would be mortified to realise that it's all year round now, especially in some offices.

I know. What we will do is reduce the sick pay. That will force staff to go into work regardless. Win-win for the company


What we badly needed here in this deal is a shorter working week all year round.

[chrisj]

Some of the gains are just fluff; like No Compulsory Redundancy until March 2023 - we have already gone past that date and they only said they will review CR after that date but not that it will happen. How on earth will they implement compulsory redundancies with so many functions undermanned and ppl.can be asked to move across? Also the process is fraught with many issues - a minefield for an employer like RM.

The fight for the allowances really irk me - fighting for 30 thousand old timers to keep their legacy allowance and that took really so long. The number in Mail Centre still getting PHG allowances and other allowances relating to pushing red or green buttons, cleaning machines and other little jobs that most of them have stopped doing for more than 10 or 15 years. Waste of money - yet,bwe complain when folks like Simon Thompson keeps his bonuses despite failure - bcos it is contractual or what is done elsewhere?

* The workplace coach allowance that should just be scrapped but they were ready to buy off the recipients. Workplace coach in delivery is a joke and money for old rope; I do more training and working with folks from other offices, newbies and agency worker than the workplace coaches. All they do is obtain signatures and not even bother explain anything...

** I see no problems with owner drivers working alongside us in a different capacity - the more the merrier; I see enough couriers to know that the company is just tapping into best ways of delivering parcels and conquering the market and more profits.

*** The are many of the so-called wins that Royal Mail have put into the negotiation as distractions or expendables... Either way, if something is part of their business plan, it will be introduced sooner or later...

Up to 3 hours change to start time does not mean all will be 3 hours - and 2.5 hours could easily be extended in reality or with operational needs.

Sunday rate reduction was a piss take but new entrants will end up doing a lot of Sundays that the cost to RM will not be worth the fight

The pantomime of the Parliamentary sessions and the nonsense about PDAs and USO was an own goal; nothing wrong with monitoring and the current USO is not helping. We are prioritising even more than before - so what was that all about; who cares?

The agreement last till 2025 - clock is ticking!

[world class male]

Thank you very much Mr Walsh
I very much cherish this deal you and your totally inept colleagues sat in your ivory towers have put forward to me,
I really look forward to walking the streets in the 3 to 5pm heat of the summer and in the freezing pitch black of the winter on my drug crazed area duty
oh, and ruining my saturday football, my only real quality time spent with my lads, not that I can really afford it anyway thanks to you endorsing the 2% pay offer for 22/23 and 24/25, you lot all need sacking or you risk losing 1000s of members
I could probably suck up some of the t&c but why also lock us in so no hope of any reward moving forward? and don't insult us with the "bonus" scheme scam on offer, we all know we cannot move forward unless you and rm get us on board putting in the extra effort, almost everyone now just wants to do the bare minimum

[Spartacus]

Come back in 2 or 3 years with your list and we'll see what's what.

The surrender agreement has opened Pandoras box and we're all going to suffer the consequences, particularly delivery staff.

[toonshola]

Must do better Martin. We see through you and we see through Ward. Sold us all out once Royal Mail agreed for release time for the Reps and that union subs will still be taken directly out of wages. Once that hurdle was overcome yous dashed for the first deal Royal Mail would
give without a second thought for the members currently struggling day in day out. How you and the union hierarchy
sleep at night is beyond me. Hang your head in shame. I’m still voting no, we can do better than this and deserve better than this.

[Hyrrokkin]

It was a negotiating tactic from RM as you already know

This agreement will get them much of what they really wanted from this round and they will be back for more later

It’s no wonder the union is in such a bad state when they fail to understand that this is the most fundamental aspect of negotiations. Royal Mail didn’t get what they say they wanted, but they very much did get just about everything they wanted. And those things they didn’t get, they have put themselves in an incredibly strong position to get next time, having weakened the union to a point at which it is staring at oblivion going forwards.

Martin is entitled to his opinion, but I find his posts quite enlightening as to the nature of our union and it’s ability to operate in the future. I don’t know whether it’s revealing of the CWU’s naïveté throughout the negotiations, or their efforts to sell what they know is a bad deal, but neither of those things give me comfort. I would challenge the CWU to find an example of another trade union that has presented a deal as bad as this one to its members.

I’d actually be more inclined to vote yes if they were just honest in saying it’s a bad deal, they failed us, but it’s ultimately the best they could do. There’s no point trying to continue to dress it all up behind this machismo that kicked off the strikes. It’s not shameful to fail, but it is shameful to continue to portray your failure as success when anybody with eyes sees right through you.

100%
Great post
The CWU have weakened themselves to such an extent that RM know they can get what they want next time and the CWU will buckle like they have now and before.
We as members deserve a much stronger,better and smarter leadership - after all the CWU make millions off our backs just like RM.
I admit i can be a little emotional in some of my posts - but too many times the CWU have let us down big time.
We know it is a terrible deal so does the CWU - instead of the usual condescending patronizing whitewash propoganda - simply admit what we all know and feel...you blew it.

[guardianangel]

Im sorry if i dont believe a word anyone says whether that be RM or CWU ,the constant lies and stalling and the use of employees as pawns in a game,to me the deal is shite i dont care who gave what and gave into whatever i've read the deal and i don't like it so it will be a definite NO !!! whatever the consequences im ready for the fight what will be will be.

[calsae]

Mr Walsh, I have no say in how the vote transpires after leaving the CWU during this dispute. The turning point for me was the inept leadership in the CWU. The ‘ win the ballot win the dispute ‘ the ‘ I'm with the Union ‘ likes on live sessions (FB) and holding Vote Yes placards up at the parliamentary committee. You are as a collective amateurish and childish and no match to the corporate shitesters of Simon Thompson and Co.
My only saving grace is carrying on ‘quietly quitting’ for as long as possible. When I finally get conducted for performance, I will then move on to another job but until then I will not destroy my body for this company.
So if it’s a yes vote or no vote, I’m determined not to do anymore work with in my allotted hours.