Annualised hours

[mjd24]

Getting to feel like the CWU has NO power to stop anything that RM bring in or change, RM know more small print t & C's than the union lawyers, and I guess know exactly what they can or cannot do. Was optimistic at first but now feel like we're in the quicksand with only the company ropes to save us. The siso will be used against us in any working hour arguments, along with the pda's.

That may be true re: siso, but in our office we all make sure we dont scan out until bang on our finish time - well 20 minutes beforehand allowing for our break at the end.

[SpacePhoenix]

Getting to feel like the CWU has NO power to stop anything that RM bring in or change, RM know more small print t & C's than the union lawyers, and I guess know exactly what they can or cannot do. Was optimistic at first but now feel like we're in the quicksand with only the company ropes to save us. The siso will be used against us in any working hour arguments, along with the pda's.

That may be true re: siso, but in our office we all make sure we dont scan out until bang on our finish time - well 20 minutes beforehand allowing for our break at the end.

If you're all scanning out 20mins before your official finish time, then higher up will be looking to take hours out of your office, as all they'll see is loads of people finishing early

[redlen]

How long do you think it will be they stop nationally taking a proportion of your break at the end of delivery??

Hope they do. They paid you for that break, so use it and log out at the correct time. Know this will happen when duty time SISO linked nationally to payroll. Local agreements will become irrelevant.

[mjd24]

Getting to feel like the CWU has NO power to stop anything that RM bring in or change, RM know more small print t & C's than the union lawyers, and I guess know exactly what they can or cannot do. Was optimistic at first but now feel like we're in the quicksand with only the company ropes to save us. The siso will be used against us in any working hour arguments, along with the pda's.

That may be true re: siso, but in our office we all make sure we dont scan out until bang on our finish time - well 20 minutes beforehand allowing for our break at the end.

If you're all scanning out 20mins before your official finish time, then higher up will be looking to take hours out of your office, as all they'll see is loads of people finishing early

Not sure thats true as i think our manager has adjusted the system or something, but it wouldnt surprise me if what he said is bollox.

[mjd24]

How long do you think it will be they stop nationally taking a proportion of your break at the end of delivery??

Hope they do. They paid you for that break, so use it and log out at the correct time. Know this will happen when duty time SISO linked nationally to payroll. Local agreements will become irrelevant.

Great stuff.

[richietns]

How long do you think it will be they stop nationally taking a proportion of your break at the end of delivery??

Hope they do. They paid you for that break, so use it and log out at the correct time. Know this will happen when duty time SISO linked nationally to payroll. Local agreements will become irrelevant.

Its getting used just at the end doesn't matter when you have it its all the same expence.

[Barnacle]

Getting to feel like the CWU has NO power to stop anything that RM bring in or change, RM know more small print t & C's than the union lawyers, and I guess know exactly what they can or cannot do. Was optimistic at first but now feel like we're in the quicksand with only the company ropes to save us. The siso will be used against us in any working hour arguments, along with the pda's.

Re the pda data: why are people still coming back early and signing out early and basically letting the pda hang them? Do they know something I don’t know?

I am working on the assumption that coming back early willl be punished via hours banked for overtime later in the year. Is that wrong?

Does anyone know how the annualised banking hours thing will actually work?

[Woody Guthrie]

If you're all scanning out 20mins before your official finish time, then higher up will be looking to take hours out of your office, as all they'll see is loads of people finishing early

How many times do you have to be told SP?
That's not how revisions work.

Revisions and removal of core hours from the TM1 are based on traffic and workload reduction not what time people finish.
.
At a local level lapsing may be affected by finish times and pressure may come down from above with regards to that but no manager is stupid enough to base a lapsing plan on meal relief.

For what it's worth delivery still has an agreement that the second 20mins of a 40min break can be taken at the end and there's no requirement to stay on the premises.

If that changes members might have to change their behaviour but until it does your point is as usual redundant.

[moonjaguar]

If you're all scanning out 20mins before your official finish time, then higher up will be looking to take hours out of your office, as all they'll see is loads of people finishing early

How many times do you have to be told SP?
That's not how revisions work.

Revisions and removal of core hours from the TM1 are based on traffic and workload reduction not what time people finish.
.
At a local level lapsing may be affected by finish times and pressure may come down from above with regards to that but no manager is stupid enough to base a lapsing plan on meal relief.

For what it's worth delivery still has an agreement that the second 20mins of a 40min break can be taken at the end and there's no requirement to stay on the premises.

If that changes members might have to change their behaviour but until it does your point is as usual redundant.

We can have our break at the end but have to stay in the office. Very annoying as it can make me late for school and seems pointless as we all standing around waiting to sign out. Where could I find out if we can actually leave for the last 20 mins as I would like to show it to our manager?

[redlen]

Leaving 20 minutes before the end of your duty and using contractual break, entitlement is down to an individual local agreement between rep and manager for that delivery office.

[Tman]

Not too well up on the concept of signing in and out, then MoonJaguar?
Any auditor would only see that you're leaving 20 minutes early every day.

[norris9]

Not too well up on the concept of signing in and out, then MoonJaguar?
Any auditor would only see that you're leaving 20 minutes early every day.

I don't understand the point in these 'auditors' or whatever their job title is, sitting in some office somewhere looking over data as to when we sign in and out when they only have a fraction of the actual information.

If you arrive at the office 20 mins early and start 20 mins early - I doubt they count that into the equation. I would assume they'd assume you started working at your start time. They will assume you took your breaks even though most people don't take their breaks and management doesn't care to enforce it even though it's a legal requirement.

Structuring things based on the data they look at is simply ridiculous and will simply make things inefficient such as adding work to jobs that are the correct size and then making them impossible to complete.

[redlen]

All the government has to do is allow your statutory break entitlement. Employers cannot make you derogate that right, but an employee can choose to work through that statutory break entitlement if they so wish. Though the employer can make it a contractual obligation, you take that statutory break. Such as not letting you go home until the official duty time ends as in sit in the canteen for 20 minutes. The only exception will be things like driver's hours, health and safety with assembly line workers etc that have their own specific regulations.

[aiden01]

Not too well up on the concept of signing in and out, then MoonJaguar?
Any auditor would only see that you're leaving 20 minutes early every day.

I don't understand the point in these 'auditors' or whatever their job title is, sitting in some office somewhere looking over data as to when we sign in and out when they only have a fraction of the actual information.

If you arrive at the office 20 mins early and start 20 mins early - I doubt they count that into the equation. I would assume they'd assume you started working at your start time. They will assume you took your breaks even though most people don't take their breaks and management doesn't care to enforce it even though it's a legal requirement.

Structuring things based on the data they look at is simply ridiculous and will simply make things inefficient such as adding work to jobs that are the correct size and then making them impossible to complete.

Why would you want to start 20 mins early??

[BigSacks]

Not too well up on the concept of signing in and out, then MoonJaguar?
Any auditor would only see that you're leaving 20 minutes early every day.

If you arrive at the office 20 mins early and start 20 mins early - I doubt they count that into the equation. I would assume they'd assume you started working at your start time.

What would be the need to sign in then?
Why not also assume you’d finished working at your finish time?