These chain of events, including a no vote must take place to triggar a better deal, that's how the game is played
If there's one thing we've learned from the last twelve months is that Royal Mail are no longer "playing the game".
They've shown that they have been willing to face down strikes, take the financial hit and impose change against the will of the staff.
We made this very mistake at the start of all this, that this dispute would follow the playbook of previous altercations we've had with the employer but it didn't, even to the point of us striking in the two days before Christmas, something I thought I'd never see.
The game has moved on and while I think some senior managers want an agreement I don't think the whole board are in consensus. I think there's a large group in all levels of management who would relish the idea of moving on without a deal and with the union severely damaged and shut out of the decision making process.
I think a No vote would strengthen the position of this group and leave those who have invested in this deal sidelined.
Good post. Voting no isn't just about the deal, its about avoiding a chain of events that paves the way for RM to basically do what they want in the near future. We are the union, not the CWU. Obviously nobody knows what's gonna happen after a no vote, but I'm a believer in voting down on what is unacceptable. I also believe a better deal will be generated upon a no vote, simply because there has to be, after some backtracking. These chain of events, including a no vote must take place to triggar a better deal, that's how the game is played
You haven’t been paying attention. Strike action during the busiest time of the year did not move the needle. Previous action saw RM capitulate merely at the threat of strike action. As pointed out above, this is not going to happen now. And will people stop saying we don’t know what will happen if a no vote is returned - we do! There is no more negotiations to be had. Both sides of the table have clearly stated this, RM emphasising that changes will go ahead with or without agreement. Look around you. They are happening already.
People need to accept that the industry is forever changed, as was inevitable since privatisation. We are working in a declining market, for an employer obsessed by money, and the union have managed to secure a pay-rise and a generous lump sum, during a time that the company is posting record losses. Yes, the hit to T&Cs is a bitter pill, but they are coming regardless. If you are voting no in protest, you are only spiting yourself, as it will not prevent the inevitable, but it will make your job less secure, and cause you financial hardship.
Who's paying you to say this ? are you one of these people in a cushy little number where you think your job will never change think again you will be spitting on yourself as well as your colleague's . VOTE NO
Who's paying you to say this ? are you one of these people in a cushy little number where you think your job will never change think again you will be spitting on yourself as well as your colleague's . VOTE NO
Paying me for offering my opinion? Nobody. Funnily enough people have differing ones, when it comes to this agreement. You’ve obviously missed literally every post I make in this forum, because in every one I mention that change is coming. Hell, it is already here. My point has, and always will be, that voting no will not prevent it.
And what about the next agreement in a couple of years time ? Same again, more erosion of t&cs , where does it end ? If you roll over now and accept this , it’s just the start.
You don’t seem to understand. We have no leverage here. That came and went when we were on strike on Christmas Eve, when ultimately any power we had by withdrawing labour evaporated. The reason for this, is both the CWU and RM are now in acquiescence at the state of the company. You can’t squeeze blood out of a stone. RM pissed away the profits we all made for them, during the pandemic, and now that traffic has dried up, and costs are sky high, the coffers are bare.
We have been screwed over, but you have to think logically and realise that voting no hurts us all. Your protest vote will not lead to an improved deal on the table, and it will not in any way hurt the rich bosses running the company. Even if the unlikely happens and RM goes under, do you think that the wealthy board will give a s**t? No, it will be me and you that suffer. Hell, even if you believe the CWU upper echelon are somehow conspiring against you, they have nothing to lose either way. Think what is best for you going forward.
Bolded >the company is not about to go under nor is it close to being broke. At the results conference Williams painted an upbeat picture to institutional investors regards the company's future revenue/profit trajectory.
A no vote sends a message to the company (and Union) that destruction of our T&C will never be accepted lightly. This is a good message to be sent by us and internalised by them. If we meekly accept the wanton destruction of our T&C then they will be back for what remains of out T&C the moment this agreement expires in 21 months time.
For those who say a no vote will see RM pile in and make all the changes as they see fit I ask a simple question - why haven't they done so already then?
Good post. Voting no isn't just about the deal, its about avoiding a chain of events that paves the way for RM to basically do what they want in the near future. We are the union, not the CWU. Obviously nobody knows what's gonna happen after a no vote, but I'm a believer in voting down on what is unacceptable. I also believe a better deal will be generated upon a no vote, simply because there has to be, after some backtracking. These chain of events, including a no vote must take place to triggar a better deal, that's how the game is played
What if there's no better deal and RM now decide to pull the
£500 bonus, as they can no longer afford to pay it, whilst announcing EA for the change in times which will now proceed on the basis of 90 mins rather than the proposed 60 mins later finishing times?
At some point we have to take the offer, using your logic the pot is never ending and we just keep asking for a bit more indefinitely.
Good post. Voting no isn't just about the deal, its about avoiding a chain of events that paves the way for RM to basically do what they want in the near future. We are the union, not the CWU. Obviously nobody knows what's gonna happen after a no vote, but I'm a believer in voting down on what is unacceptable. I also believe a better deal will be generated upon a no vote, simply because there has to be, after some backtracking. These chain of events, including a no vote must take place to triggar a better deal, that's how the game is played
You haven’t been paying attention. Strike action during the busiest time of the year did not move the needle. Previous action saw RM capitulate merely at the threat of strike action. As pointed out above, this is not going to happen now. And will people stop saying we don’t know what will happen if a no vote is returned - we do! There is no more negotiations to be had. Both sides of the table have clearly stated this, RM emphasising that changes will go ahead with or without agreement. Look around you. They are happening already.
People need to accept that the industry is forever changed, as was inevitable since privatisation. We are working in a declining market, for an employer obsessed by money, and the union have managed to secure a pay-rise and a generous lump sum, during a time that the company is posting record losses. Yes, the hit to T&Cs is a bitter pill, but they are coming regardless. If you are voting no in protest, you are only spiting yourself, as it will not prevent the inevitable, but it will make your job less secure, and cause you financial hardship.
You are the one not reading between the lines. Last Friday, RM decided to add a £900 sweetener/bribe. Why is that? It is because they want an agreement, they do not want to press ahead without an agreement, it is not sustainable. We are starting the deal at ground zero and low and behold, they pull £900 out of the air because they knew it would be rejected. Which just proves the deal needs to be rejected to get a better deal. Do you really think RM would walk away from the deal altogether when it gets rejected? They will be forced to offer a better deal. Just like we were told there's no more money, they go and find 900 quid for everyone just like that. This just proves what bargaining power the 115,000 employees have, the real cwu. Let's not give away the bargaining chips cheaply. We want a fair price. We all know the money is there for a better deal. We were all taught from childhood right from wrong and we all know that this deal is very wrong. Use your imagination people, a better deal will be generated upon a NO vote. I think deep down we all know that, because RM need a deal. The workforce is too large. Sure, they can push through plans without a deal, but it will never go as smoothly as it would with a deal and a deal is the cheaper option for RM, even if they were made to improve it.
As I have intimated before, voting no is committing hari kari for your job, your family and ultimately the Company itself.
Lets get one thing straight from word go please, a no vote will not generate a better offer from Royal Mail, if you believe that, you believe money grows on trees too
A no vote crucifies your own union the CWU, and Royal Mail will just impose a settlement, withdraw the lump sum and fire all dissenters. There are plenty of immigrants and refugees out there now who will gladly take your job
You are the one not reading between the lines. Last Friday, RM decided to add a £900 sweetener/bribe. Why is that? It is because they want an agreement, they do not want to press ahead without an agreement, it is not sustainable. We are starting the deal at ground zero and low and behold, they pull £900 out of the air because they knew it would be rejected. Which just proves the deal needs to be rejected to get a better deal. Do you really think RM would walk away from the deal altogether when it gets rejected? They will be forced to offer a better deal. Just like we were told there's no more money, they go and find 900 quid for everyone just like that. This just proves what bargaining power the 115,000 employees have, the real cwu. Let's not give away the bargaining chips cheaply. We want a fair price. We all know the money is there for a better deal. We were all taught from childhood right from wrong and we all know that this deal is very wrong. Use your imagination people, a better deal will be generated upon a NO vote. I think deep down we all know that, because RM need a deal. The workforce is too large. Sure, they can push through plans without a deal, but it will never go as smoothly as it would with a deal and a deal is the cheaper option for RM, even if they were made to improve it.
Where do you think the £900 increase to the lump sum has come from?
You are the one not reading between the lines. Last Friday, RM decided to add a £900 sweetener/bribe. Why is that? It is because they want an agreement, they do not want to press ahead without an agreement, it is not sustainable. We are starting the deal at ground zero and low and behold, they pull £900 out of the air because they knew it would be rejected. Which just proves the deal needs to be rejected to get a better deal. Do you really think RM would walk away from the deal altogether when it gets rejected? They will be forced to offer a better deal. Just like we were told there's no more money, they go and find 900 quid for everyone just like that. This just proves what bargaining power the 115,000 employees have, the real cwu. Let's not give away the bargaining chips cheaply. We want a fair price. We all know the money is there for a better deal. We were all taught from childhood right from wrong and we all know that this deal is very wrong. Use your imagination people, a better deal will be generated upon a NO vote. I think deep down we all know that, because RM need a deal. The workforce is too large. Sure, they can push through plans without a deal, but it will never go as smoothly as it would with a deal and a deal is the cheaper option for RM, even if they were made to improve it.
Where do you think the £900 increase to the lump sum has come from?
Its been in the pipeline for a while. I wonder what other goodies will be added once the deal gets rejected. You see, negotiating between CWU and RM is over. Now its up to us to do the negotiating by delivering a NO vote. RM want a deal. It is cheaper for them to get us all on board, even if it means improving the (bad) deal. The most expensive option for RM is to push on without the support and acceptance of 115,000 staff....that is a fact that im sure even yes voters would agree on. So really, we have a lot of bargaining power but we have not been represented very well by CWU and also RM want to disregard CWU. I honestly dont know why you are so desperate for a yes vote. You are not convincing anyone on here. Do you really when this deal gets rejected, that all negotiations will stop? they will just walk away and carry on with plans against a 115,000 strong work force? Thats the worst case scenario for RM. Its cheaper for them to just add a few things to the deal and get it over the line, because we are not a million miles away from it
