Sunday's

[Martin Walsh]

I have seen a lot of concern about people being forced to work Sundays which is wrong.

The actual wording in the agreement is below

The approach to capturing parcel growth through maximising what is delivered with the core and the introduction of efficient dedicated parcel deliveries and Sunday deliveries (on a voluntary basis), where this is justified by customer needs and workload.

So it is voluntary. The wording from the LTB where it states initially is subject to further complex discussions.

Royal Mail do not believe there is an affordable product which customers would pay for on Sundays. The simple reason is our pay rates / overtime /SA on a Sunday are higher than Monday -Sunday.
Most people think that the cost would be in the delivery but Royal Mail would have to open the whole network to ensure parcels posted on a Saturday gets to the delivery office on a Sunday.

Yodel ,Hermes and Amazon do not charge any extra for delivery on a Sunday because there pay rates are the same Monday to Sunday.

Royal Mail ceased the M25 trial on Sunday deliveries in 2018 which has lasted 4 years because they did not believe the customer would pay an extra few quid for delivery on a Sunday which they could get cheaper in a Monday. All the trial delivered was to advance the tracked from Monday.

Remember when you walk into a supermarket a customer who buys a pint of milk on a Sunday will not expect to pay an extra pound compared to Monday to Friday. Hence why Royal Mail have been nervous about trying to introduce a product for delivery on a Sunday.

The CWU wants to explore where we can protect jobs and create jobs by capturing growth in parcels and that is why Sundays is in the agreement.

Letters , second class , D2D will not be delivered on a Sunday so there will not be a requirement for whole offices to attend in the future.

Instead this is about understanding can we protect jobs or create them by delivering on a Sunday.

Any future agreement would be subject to consultation and ballot.

This is why the agreement states voluntary as there are no plans or agreed way forward which will potentially lead to this needing to be changed from voluntary.

[Woody Guthrie]

So are you saying that Sunday working should not under any circumstances form part of the 2021 revisions until we have a separate agreement and no revision should be planned around a 7 day operation?

If that's the case it's kind of a big call and something that the reps should be made aware of from day one.

[Woody Guthrie]

Remember when you walk into a supermarket a customer who buys a pint of milk on a Sunday will not expect to pay an extra pound compared to Monday to Friday.

We don't sell goods we sell services, There's a lot of services you pay a premium for on a Sunday, try getting a plumber out on a Sunday and you'll find out what Sunday rate is.

I'm not sure if you're aware but Parcelforce charge a premium for Sunday deliveries, their customers don't seem to mind paying extra for their milk. Most of the couriers charge extra for Sunday delivery, DHL even charge extra for Saturday.

Are you sure RM aren't just wanting to have their cake and eat it here Martin?

[Martin Walsh]

Woody this is the wording of the national agreement , it is very unlikely by time that revisions will be deployed that Royal Mail will have a product which they believe the customer will pay for on a Sunday. I was involved in the Sunday parcel delivery trial , the cost of opening up the network and the cost of the delivery would be a big barrier as customers do not want to pay extra for a parcel which they could get the next day cheaper.

I do believe we will need a debate about the rate for Sunday If we are serious about capturing the Sunday parcel traffic. That it in self would Warrant a new national agreement.


The national parties will agree further guidelines on how this rebalancing activity will be undertaken, including the following:

• The approach to capturing parcel growth through maximising what is delivered with the core and the introduction of efficient dedicated parcel deliveries and Sunday deliveries (on a voluntary basis), where this is justified by customer needs and workload.

[DGH]

it is very unlikely by time that revisions will be deployed that Royal Mail will have a product which they believe the customer will pay for on a Sunday.

Um, special delivery?

[Martin Walsh]

Special delivery would have to be more expensive due to the extra staff costs for working Sunday.

Additionally You would have to open the network for special delivery to some degree.

[Woody Guthrie]

I'll be honest Martin I think Sunday delivery is a dead end.

It's a dead end not because of the staff costs or the thought of paying a premium but because I don't think there's a particular appetite for being woken up on a Sunday to take delivery of some piece of tat.

Let's be honest if you're ordering from Boohoo or A&F at 10pm on a Saturday night you're probably drunk and a little sad and in need of a lie in on Sunday.

[DGH]

I'm not so sure about that. Amazon deliver on Sunday as standard for Prime members (and there are a surprising number of them) and clearly find that customers don't mind Sunday deliveries at all.

[Cedar_Room]

I'll be honest Martin I think Sunday delivery is a dead end.

It's a dead end not because of the staff costs or the thought of paying a premium but because I don't think there's a particular appetite for being woken up on a Sunday to take delivery of some piece of tat.

Let's be honest if you're ordering from Boohoo or A&F at 10pm on a Saturday night you're probably drunk and a little sad and in need of a lie in on Sunday.

I’m just a bit perplexed as to why you are so against Sunday deliveries?

Most people I have talked to in my office see it as a way to expand the business,hence,more job security. Which at this moment in time is more precious than ever.

I doubt anyone is going to be ‘forced’ to work Sunday’s,though I can see weekend working being built into future duty structures ,which will no doubt suit some but not others. If you don’t wanna do it,don’t sign for that walk. Simples

[Cedar_Room]

I'm not so sure about that. Amazon deliver on Sunday as standard for Prime members (and there are a surprising number of them) and clearly find that customers don't mind Sunday deliveries at all.

You’re right. People,especially the younger generation expect their stuff to be delivered ASAP. If RM offer them the opportunity of ordering something Saturday AM with a Sunday PM delivery - the customer will jump at the chance

[derricksmyth]

I know some of the recent Part -timers in my office had working every other Sunday ,built into their contracts.

I can see premium products ie tracked ,Specials being delivered on Sunday by new entrant part timers.

[postslippete]

Royal Mail have been banging on for years about how they are investing in parcel automation and that most of the profits that they make are in the parcels. But if they are not prepared to pay their staff a few extra quid to offer our customers a Sunday service, how much business is your "shop" actually doing if you are closed for the day whilst your competitors remain open?

Its certainly a discussion for the future. Maybe the £225 million or whatever it was that OfCom suggested that Royal Mail could save if we were to move to a 5 day USO on letters would enable the company to have a Sunday parcel delivery service and pay their staff a few extra quid for working it??

[Celgar]

It sounds like any new recruits would get Sunday working built into their contracts given that it will be voluntary for current employees & we generally don't like working on Saturdays let alone Sunday.

We had a speech from our union rep saying that we should vote for the new pay rise agreement & that the CWU have totally defeated RM in the negotiations. Whether that is fully correct I couldn't possibly comment.

[SpacePhoenix]

It sounds like any new recruits would get Sunday working built into their contracts given that it will be voluntary for current employees & we generally don't like working on Saturdays let alone Sunday.

What about when RM eventually bring in new duties to replace all existing duties and the new duties include Saturday and Sunday working (probably on rotation)????

[wacko74]

I've said before, I'd love to reduce my current hours/days and only work sat & sun delivering just pkts, parcels, specials, so not everyone is dead against Sunday working.

I'm hoping that if/when the USO reduction does come in and Saturday is the day dropped then just such a weekend pkt/parcel/special duty could come into existence.