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Understand the external threat
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Martin Walsh
- Posts: 4258
- Joined: 19 Sep 2007, 20:12
- Location: neverland
Understand the external threat
Whilst at the moment the talks are at a critical stage , it would not be right to break the confidentiality of them as these are hugely significant talks.
The article by the Chair below shows what is really at stake and why these talks are extremely difficult for both Royal Mail and the CWU.
The pressure on Royal Mail is huge as unless they show by the half yearly results in November that they have an agreed road map on how they turn around what they expect to be an half billion loss to a route to profitability than the pressure will be to sell GLS and than the share price in Royal Mail will fall and therefore be at risk of a hostile take over bid to break up the company.
So Royal Mail have tried to put lots on the table for the union to sign into including
Sign into a recovery plan to turn Royal Mail to profitability
Pre determined number of savings via jobs losses and improvement in productivity
That automated hours data capture , PDA OA and Resource scheduler will used to resource offices in the future. These will ensure that only those hours recorded on AHDC and PDA OA are paid .
They want everyone to work at 100BSi or beyond and that any office not working at that level will need to agree a plan to get there.
Royal Mail want to introduce a new non culpable inefficiency procedure which is aimed at ensure individuals are working at 100BSi
Yearly delivery revisions
Quarterly processing realignments
Quarterly PAD reviews
5 hour delivery spans first letter to last letter , not including travel or meal relief
Everyone on delivery to be on the same standard duty 1 Rotating day off per week.
Cuts in sick pay for those in the first 5 years of service
Reductions in trigger points
For that we get a pay rise in terms of a lump sum which if deliver on each of the above may gets consolidated.
We ain’t going to do that deal.
However let’s be real we are not going to be allowed to ballot for industrial action during a pandemic where we are delivering an increasing number of COVID tests , medicines and vital services.
We are still in negotiations and we are determined to get an agreement but it won’t be a deal without change. However we will not accepting the type of attack on our terms and conditions which have been proposed in writing to the CWU.
So I understand some might be frustrated but these talks are very serious and the failure of both sides to reach a deal by the half yearly results may have very big consequences.
So I suggest you read below the article and you read between the lines as well and you may appreciate that your union is trying to get an agreement to protect your future.
Keith Williams - Sunday Times article
When workers arrive at Royal Mail’s 1,300 delivery offices, they step back in time — they still sign in on paper.
Bosses have been trying to introduce electronic swipe cards since 2005, but have so far failed to win over the Communication Workers Union (CWU). Similar idiosyncrasies exist across the 504-year-old business. When a depot wants a faster electronic sorting machine, it must seek approval from union bosses. Decisions about who gets the shorter, less hilly routes, and the use of hand-held tracking devices, also lie in the hands of the CWU, which speaks for about two-thirds of Royal Mail’s 140,000 UK workforce.
However, the strength of that hold, and the resolve of CWU general secretary Dave Ward, are about to be tested. The pandemic has turned a steady fall in the number of letters being posted into a full-blown collapse as struggling firms cancel their mailshots. Letter volumes plunged 28% in April to August versus a year earlier.
That was partly offset by a 34% boom in parcels as households spent online, but will still tip the UK business into a heavy loss. Giants such as Amazon and rival parcel groups continue to encroach.
While Royal Mail argues with its union over the right to adjust its routes twice a year to match demand, its rivals use automation and algorithms to optimise drop-offs by gig-economy workers paid per parcel.
Royal Mail executive chairman Keith Williams said: “Dave Ward can see the world is changing. Coming in here is a bit like going back in time.”
Williams, a former chief executive of British Airways, stepped up when Royal Mail’s last boss, Rico Back, was ditched in May, seven years after its float. That listing was dogged by accusations that it had been sold on the cheap. No one is saying that now: the shares trade at just 249.50p, a 45% fall from their float price.
Williams wants Royal Mail to speed up innovations such as last week’s announcement that postal workers will also pick up parcels, for a fee. “We should deliver parcels seven days a week,” he added.
To do that he must tackle a heavy fixed-cost base — 69% of which is people. In June, 2,000 managers were told they would lose their jobs.
A postie’s bag is now less than half as full of letters as it was in 2013 — 900 versus 400 during lockdown. Yet they must still go up every garden path, to 30 million addresses, six days a week. Williams wants to change the terms of Royal Mail’s universal service obligation; across Europe, delivery frequencies are dropping to between three and five days a week.
Shareholders are losing patience. The company has scrapped its dividend, and Daniel Kretinsky, a billionaire dubbed the Czech Sphinx, has amassed a 13.1% stake.
“There’s an external catalyst [for change],” said Williams. “Shareholders can see the opportunity. The catalyst is: don’t subsidise a declining business in the UK with an international business that’s profitable.” In other words, modernise fast — or be broken up by force.
The plc has already been split into a domestic parcels and letters division, and GLS, its highly profitable international parcels unit. “In the short term there are no synergies,” said Williams; the longer-term opportunity is to be “an international logistics company”.
Royal Mail does not have the luxury of time. In June, it painted a worst-case picture: a second Covid wave that shuts the economy again. That scenario is rapidly becoming reality. David Kerstens, an analyst at Jefferies, said the UK business could lose £800m this year.
Few businesses carry the national significance of Royal Mail. Margaret Thatcher did not sell it off, saying she was “not prepared to have the Queen’s head privatised”.
Alan Johnson, the former home secretary who started off as a postman and rose to head the CWU, said its daily deliveries had been a source of “enormous comfort” in the pandemic: “Covid has reminded people how important it is to see those red vans and red pillar boxes — it’s part of Britain.”
However, Sir Vince Cable, who was business secretary at the privatisation, said: “The CWU’s ... slowdown of modernisation has ultimately been self-defeating. In theory, all this online commerce should be a big opportunity.”
Yet first Royal Mail must close the gap with the unions. In 2013, it signed a deal with the CWU called Agenda for Growth — which has failed to deliver any growth. That tied Royal Mail into an agreement not to introduce gig-economy workers or outsource parts of the business. However, the company can break that pact in extremis, such as a strike or financial instability. Meanwhile, the CWU insists a 2018 deal to cut working hours from 39 a week to 35 must be honoured, as must a pay rise, with the threat of a strike never far away.
It said: “We are committed to reaching an agreement that benefits and rewards our members, protects the future of the company and, just as importantly, protects and enhances the services we provide to the public.”
The article by the Chair below shows what is really at stake and why these talks are extremely difficult for both Royal Mail and the CWU.
The pressure on Royal Mail is huge as unless they show by the half yearly results in November that they have an agreed road map on how they turn around what they expect to be an half billion loss to a route to profitability than the pressure will be to sell GLS and than the share price in Royal Mail will fall and therefore be at risk of a hostile take over bid to break up the company.
So Royal Mail have tried to put lots on the table for the union to sign into including
Sign into a recovery plan to turn Royal Mail to profitability
Pre determined number of savings via jobs losses and improvement in productivity
That automated hours data capture , PDA OA and Resource scheduler will used to resource offices in the future. These will ensure that only those hours recorded on AHDC and PDA OA are paid .
They want everyone to work at 100BSi or beyond and that any office not working at that level will need to agree a plan to get there.
Royal Mail want to introduce a new non culpable inefficiency procedure which is aimed at ensure individuals are working at 100BSi
Yearly delivery revisions
Quarterly processing realignments
Quarterly PAD reviews
5 hour delivery spans first letter to last letter , not including travel or meal relief
Everyone on delivery to be on the same standard duty 1 Rotating day off per week.
Cuts in sick pay for those in the first 5 years of service
Reductions in trigger points
For that we get a pay rise in terms of a lump sum which if deliver on each of the above may gets consolidated.
We ain’t going to do that deal.
However let’s be real we are not going to be allowed to ballot for industrial action during a pandemic where we are delivering an increasing number of COVID tests , medicines and vital services.
We are still in negotiations and we are determined to get an agreement but it won’t be a deal without change. However we will not accepting the type of attack on our terms and conditions which have been proposed in writing to the CWU.
So I understand some might be frustrated but these talks are very serious and the failure of both sides to reach a deal by the half yearly results may have very big consequences.
So I suggest you read below the article and you read between the lines as well and you may appreciate that your union is trying to get an agreement to protect your future.
Keith Williams - Sunday Times article
When workers arrive at Royal Mail’s 1,300 delivery offices, they step back in time — they still sign in on paper.
Bosses have been trying to introduce electronic swipe cards since 2005, but have so far failed to win over the Communication Workers Union (CWU). Similar idiosyncrasies exist across the 504-year-old business. When a depot wants a faster electronic sorting machine, it must seek approval from union bosses. Decisions about who gets the shorter, less hilly routes, and the use of hand-held tracking devices, also lie in the hands of the CWU, which speaks for about two-thirds of Royal Mail’s 140,000 UK workforce.
However, the strength of that hold, and the resolve of CWU general secretary Dave Ward, are about to be tested. The pandemic has turned a steady fall in the number of letters being posted into a full-blown collapse as struggling firms cancel their mailshots. Letter volumes plunged 28% in April to August versus a year earlier.
That was partly offset by a 34% boom in parcels as households spent online, but will still tip the UK business into a heavy loss. Giants such as Amazon and rival parcel groups continue to encroach.
While Royal Mail argues with its union over the right to adjust its routes twice a year to match demand, its rivals use automation and algorithms to optimise drop-offs by gig-economy workers paid per parcel.
Royal Mail executive chairman Keith Williams said: “Dave Ward can see the world is changing. Coming in here is a bit like going back in time.”
Williams, a former chief executive of British Airways, stepped up when Royal Mail’s last boss, Rico Back, was ditched in May, seven years after its float. That listing was dogged by accusations that it had been sold on the cheap. No one is saying that now: the shares trade at just 249.50p, a 45% fall from their float price.
Williams wants Royal Mail to speed up innovations such as last week’s announcement that postal workers will also pick up parcels, for a fee. “We should deliver parcels seven days a week,” he added.
To do that he must tackle a heavy fixed-cost base — 69% of which is people. In June, 2,000 managers were told they would lose their jobs.
A postie’s bag is now less than half as full of letters as it was in 2013 — 900 versus 400 during lockdown. Yet they must still go up every garden path, to 30 million addresses, six days a week. Williams wants to change the terms of Royal Mail’s universal service obligation; across Europe, delivery frequencies are dropping to between three and five days a week.
Shareholders are losing patience. The company has scrapped its dividend, and Daniel Kretinsky, a billionaire dubbed the Czech Sphinx, has amassed a 13.1% stake.
“There’s an external catalyst [for change],” said Williams. “Shareholders can see the opportunity. The catalyst is: don’t subsidise a declining business in the UK with an international business that’s profitable.” In other words, modernise fast — or be broken up by force.
The plc has already been split into a domestic parcels and letters division, and GLS, its highly profitable international parcels unit. “In the short term there are no synergies,” said Williams; the longer-term opportunity is to be “an international logistics company”.
Royal Mail does not have the luxury of time. In June, it painted a worst-case picture: a second Covid wave that shuts the economy again. That scenario is rapidly becoming reality. David Kerstens, an analyst at Jefferies, said the UK business could lose £800m this year.
Few businesses carry the national significance of Royal Mail. Margaret Thatcher did not sell it off, saying she was “not prepared to have the Queen’s head privatised”.
Alan Johnson, the former home secretary who started off as a postman and rose to head the CWU, said its daily deliveries had been a source of “enormous comfort” in the pandemic: “Covid has reminded people how important it is to see those red vans and red pillar boxes — it’s part of Britain.”
However, Sir Vince Cable, who was business secretary at the privatisation, said: “The CWU’s ... slowdown of modernisation has ultimately been self-defeating. In theory, all this online commerce should be a big opportunity.”
Yet first Royal Mail must close the gap with the unions. In 2013, it signed a deal with the CWU called Agenda for Growth — which has failed to deliver any growth. That tied Royal Mail into an agreement not to introduce gig-economy workers or outsource parts of the business. However, the company can break that pact in extremis, such as a strike or financial instability. Meanwhile, the CWU insists a 2018 deal to cut working hours from 39 a week to 35 must be honoured, as must a pay rise, with the threat of a strike never far away.
It said: “We are committed to reaching an agreement that benefits and rewards our members, protects the future of the company and, just as importantly, protects and enhances the services we provide to the public.”
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Schiff
- Posts: 544
- Joined: 01 Nov 2016, 22:02
- Gender: Male
Understand the external threat
Some of these changes shouldn't even be considered part of the negotiation. I have worked for various employers in my working life. This is the only one where there seems to be an expectation amongst large numbers of the staff that they shouldn't have to attend their workplace for the full duration of their working hours, with some expecting to get paid twice if they do so.
Royal Mail have published their vision for the way that they want things to be done going forward. The frustration is that the union, who are meant to represent us, haven't published their alternative vision that they are trying to negotiate towards. That wouldn't be breaking confidentiality any more than the CEO publishing his vision. Instead we are kept in the dark. We don't know if the union are simply pissing about trying to insist on keeping ways of working more appropriate to the 1960s, simply full of bluster in line with their vocal support for the ridiculous Corbynist Labour Party agenda, or whether they are negotiating from a purely pragmatic stance.
On the other hand your assertion that we aren't going to be allowed to take industrial action is plain wrong. If we agreed to provide a skeleton staff to purely handle Covid tests and any items considered to be vital to the national interest then I have no doubt that we could take industrial action. In doing so we would have to recognise that we would see the permanent transfer of huge amounts of our parcel traffic to our competitors. It would be the nuclear option which would destroy Royal Mail and our jobs.
Royal Mail have published their vision for the way that they want things to be done going forward. The frustration is that the union, who are meant to represent us, haven't published their alternative vision that they are trying to negotiate towards. That wouldn't be breaking confidentiality any more than the CEO publishing his vision. Instead we are kept in the dark. We don't know if the union are simply pissing about trying to insist on keeping ways of working more appropriate to the 1960s, simply full of bluster in line with their vocal support for the ridiculous Corbynist Labour Party agenda, or whether they are negotiating from a purely pragmatic stance.
On the other hand your assertion that we aren't going to be allowed to take industrial action is plain wrong. If we agreed to provide a skeleton staff to purely handle Covid tests and any items considered to be vital to the national interest then I have no doubt that we could take industrial action. In doing so we would have to recognise that we would see the permanent transfer of huge amounts of our parcel traffic to our competitors. It would be the nuclear option which would destroy Royal Mail and our jobs.
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Sir Henry
- Posts: 1316
- Joined: 24 Oct 2014, 00:33
- Gender: Male
Understand the external threat
Martin Walsh wrote:
That automated hours data capture , PDA OA and Resource scheduler will used to resource offices in the future. These will ensure that only those hours recorded on AHDC and PDA OA are paid . Can anyone see how they won't find some way of skewing the stats like they do already?
They want everyone to work at 100BSi or beyond and that any office not working at that level will need to agree a plan to get there. 100 BSI is just a number to me, I understand it's the rate that people paid on a piece rate work at but how does that translate to doors per minute or something similar?
Royal Mail want to introduce a new non culpable inefficiency procedure which is aimed at ensure individuals are working at 100BSi wtf does non culpable innefficiency mean and more importantly what happens to those that don't make the grade?
Yearly delivery revisions
Quarterly processing realignments
Quarterly PAD reviews What?
5 hour delivery spans first letter to last letter , not including travel or meal relief presumably the cutting off procedure will be made even more difficult?
Everyone on delivery to be on the same standard duty 1 Rotating day off per week. Hasnt happened in all the years I have worked for RM
Cuts in sick pay for those in the first 5 years of service 2 tier workforce ?
Reductions in trigger points What trigger points? A reduction in the amount of trigger points or a reduction in the level of whatever triggers these points?
”
"A third of the world's farmland is now useless due to soil degradation, yet we still keep producing mouths to feed. And what's you answer to that? Energy saving lightbulbs?"
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Ren Hoëk
- Posts: 737
- Joined: 01 Feb 2018, 12:19
- Gender: Male
Understand the external threat
Im getting pretty fed up of being told Im not working hard enough, Efficient enough or doing enough. Im getting hammered every day and it takes a physical and mental toll. I/We work extremely hard. It's very hard graft these days. In the blistering heat and driving freezing rain in the face of a global pandemic. I honestly don't believe I have any more to give and the insinuation that we are lazy is insulting.
As for this :-
"Cuts in sick pay for those in the first 5 years of service"
Incredibly reckless. Will we learn nothin from covid?
As for this :-
"Cuts in sick pay for those in the first 5 years of service"
Incredibly reckless. Will we learn nothin from covid?
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stodgy88
- EX ROYAL MAIL
- Posts: 641
- Joined: 14 Nov 2008, 20:11
- Gender: Male
Understand the external threat
Everyone on delivery to be on the same standard duty 1 Rotating day off per week - that will be difficult,i only work 3 days a week .
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worktotime
- Posts: 2860
- Joined: 14 May 2010, 20:47
- Gender: Male
Understand the external threat
to be honest Martin we all probably know how hard the talks are , but members havent heard anything from TP for about 4 weeks since the last update and if talks are going s**t then we just need telling whats what and not the fine details of them , as the workload especially in delivery is getting unachievable on top of everything that is going on and not just these talks and managers are treating staff like shite and strutting about as though they are untouchable with no actions , deliverys failing daily and its not down to covid 19 either , staff coming back after days off expected to mop up 2 days mail , pkts , parcels which is just down to being understaff and them trying to run it on a shoe string , and in our office staff have had enough and just want some type of leadership from above as this cant continue much longer .
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wallan
- Posts: 498
- Joined: 09 Apr 2012, 08:12
- Gender: Male
Understand the external threat
50 Years of Modernization in one go ,
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fb1969
- EX ROYAL MAIL
- Posts: 1693
- Joined: 29 Aug 2012, 08:38
- Gender: Male
- Location: hiding on the backstreets
Understand the external threat
How does a 5 hour delivery span fit in with RM's obsession with employing people on a part-time contract that seems to be 5 to 6 hours a day?
Does RM and/or the CWU know the current pressure of the workload in a lot of offices? In a recent video Terry wanted to hear from people who felt they were close to breaking point - that is a mental health issue. Did he hear from many people? Is it being taken seriously by anyone? I am very close to chucking the job in as I see no sign of any changes that will improve the situation I see every day.
I am sure I am not alone in pushing myself mentally and physically since March and no one in the company or union seem to care. The managers expect unrealistic workloads to be completed, and the only input I've had from the rep was actually insulting to anyone suffering with mental health issues.
Does RM and/or the CWU know the current pressure of the workload in a lot of offices? In a recent video Terry wanted to hear from people who felt they were close to breaking point - that is a mental health issue. Did he hear from many people? Is it being taken seriously by anyone? I am very close to chucking the job in as I see no sign of any changes that will improve the situation I see every day.
I am sure I am not alone in pushing myself mentally and physically since March and no one in the company or union seem to care. The managers expect unrealistic workloads to be completed, and the only input I've had from the rep was actually insulting to anyone suffering with mental health issues.
Royal Mail
failing the workforce, failing the public and deliberately failing mail on a daily basis for too many years.
failing the workforce, failing the public and deliberately failing mail on a daily basis for too many years.
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Woody Guthrie
- Posts: 5166
- Joined: 29 Sep 2018, 20:47
- Gender: Male
Understand the external threat
I know halloween is coming up but really Martin?
Non culpable inefficiency at under 100BSI?
That's a pile of nonsense and you know it.
Non culpable inefficiency at under 100BSI?
That's a pile of nonsense and you know it.
Only dead fish follow the current
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theotherone
- Posts: 430
- Joined: 04 Jun 2020, 21:58
- Gender: Male
Understand the external threat
I'm getting dismayed to be honest.
So we agreed to those points the business would just be coming back in 5 years telling us we need to work harder again because things aren't quite as they want.
Me and many others are ****** off at the untouchable managers, who can do what they want, duties not going out for days, bullying and harassment is rife and sadly a part of everyday RM life.
I'd walk tomorrow we've dragged this company through this pandemic.My long term future is more important.
So we agreed to those points the business would just be coming back in 5 years telling us we need to work harder again because things aren't quite as they want.
Me and many others are ****** off at the untouchable managers, who can do what they want, duties not going out for days, bullying and harassment is rife and sadly a part of everyday RM life.
I'd walk tomorrow we've dragged this company through this pandemic.My long term future is more important.
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Vwtouran
- Posts: 95
- Joined: 26 Jan 2016, 18:54
- Gender: Male
Understand the external threat
What does 100 Bsi mean please?
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Woody Guthrie
- Posts: 5166
- Joined: 29 Sep 2018, 20:47
- Gender: Male
Understand the external threat
I'll ask a direct question if I may Martin.
Since you've personally ruled out strike action.
Royal Mail must also know this.
What's the plan b if the business says this is how it is and this is how it is going to be?
I get the feeling we're being manipulated here and maybe as well as understanding thee external threat we should also beware the internal threat.
Since you've personally ruled out strike action.
Royal Mail must also know this.
What's the plan b if the business says this is how it is and this is how it is going to be?
I get the feeling we're being manipulated here and maybe as well as understanding thee external threat we should also beware the internal threat.
Only dead fish follow the current
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Schiff
- Posts: 544
- Joined: 01 Nov 2016, 22:02
- Gender: Male
Understand the external threat
Exactly. A bit like trying to negotiate Brexit having ruled out no deal. It bu**ers up your negotiating position before you start.Woody Guthrie wrote:I'll ask a direct question if I may Martin.
Since you've personally ruled out strike action.
Royal Mail must also know this.
What's the plan b if the business says this is how it is and this is how it is going to be?
I get the feeling we're being manipulated here and maybe as well as understanding thee external threat we should also beware the internal threat.
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theotherone
- Posts: 430
- Joined: 04 Jun 2020, 21:58
- Gender: Male
Understand the external threat
Very valid point by Woody if we aren't prepared to strike we actually do we have in our armoury? We can ask really nicely I guess.
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Woody Guthrie
- Posts: 5166
- Joined: 29 Sep 2018, 20:47
- Gender: Male
Understand the external threat
In simple terms if the industrial engineer says the most letters you could sort in a minute in perfect conditions was 50 that would be 100BSI.Vwtouran wrote:What does 100 Bsi mean please?
As most people cannot maintain that level of efficiency over any length of time it is seldom used in any workplace as a measure of individual capability, that's not what it was designed for.
It is even less often used for any kind conduct issue or suitability for employment because it's almost impossible to measure accurately on an individual basis and a legal minefield as is the whole non culpable inefficiency idea.
BSI and measured efficiency are used to give a unit's overall performance.
Only dead fish follow the current