Executive action

TheStrangler · Post by **TheStrangler** » 28 Jan 2020, 08:30

Is it true rm have to give 4 weeks notice for any executive action (e.g.forcing through a resign or the clocking in system) or can they literally begin when they see fit?

Post69 · Post by **Post69** » 28 Jan 2020, 08:48

At the moment they are doing what they want

going against any agreement so I would just take it they won't bat an eye lid about not giving 4 weeks notice on anything

they don't give a toss about any agreement which I think is obvious to see in anyone's eyes!

Post by **POSTMAN** » 28 Jan 2020, 11:09

It's usually 28 days yes.

wandle · Post by **wandle** » 29 Jan 2020, 09:15

TheStrangler wrote:Is it true rm have to give 4 weeks notice for any executive action (e.g.forcing through a resign or the clocking in system) or can they literally begin when they see fit?

Grab yourself one of those drivers’ “pee passes”, forget to hand it back in, and you can come and go as you please without being ‘tracked’ :-)

wandle · Post by **wandle** » 29 Jan 2020, 10:02

The more disturbing aspect to this data capture is this: at the moment, if you’re late for work, there is a procedure. Based on the circumstances, it’s either excused, or unexcused.
If late attendance caused an automatic docking of pay, that’s an outrage. You may have been delayed on public transport, due to trains being halted after a suicide, or a car driver delayed by a pile-up in fog.
If, however, managers can put a ‘flag’ on the system to allow you to be paid even when late, that means managers gaining local access to data about you, including times on / off the floor. No such access was a cornerstone on the terms of reference for AHDC trials. Managers gaining access to that sort of information should be opposed most aggressively!!

Post by **Sugar** » 29 Jan 2020, 10:15

wandle wrote:If late attendance caused an automatic docking of pay, that’s an outrage. You may have been delayed on public transport, due to trains being halted after a suicide, or a car driver delayed by a pile-up in fog.

Its not an outrage its just life in other companies. If you are late no matter what the circumstances then you're docked money as per their rules. Its your responsibility to get to work on time even if it means catching an earlier bus, train or getting in your car sooner. Been there, done that and had it docked in previous employment.

Post69 · Post by **Post69** » 29 Jan 2020, 10:30

Sugar wrote:
wandle wrote:If late attendance caused an automatic docking of pay, that’s an outrage. You may have been delayed on public transport, due to trains being halted after a suicide, or a car driver delayed by a pile-up in fog.
Its not an outrage its just life in other companies. If you are late no matter what the circumstances then you're docked money as per their rules. Its your responsibility to get to work on time even if it means catching an earlier bus, train or getting in your car sooner. Been there, done that and had it docked in previous employment.

Unfortunately you are correct this is the way working life is outside of royal mail (your late your docked ) but they don't have what we have.........a royal mail manager over seeing it that's the difference

Post by **Sugar** » 29 Jan 2020, 10:57

Post69 wrote:
Sugar wrote:
wandle wrote:If late attendance caused an automatic docking of pay, that’s an outrage. You may have been delayed on public transport, due to trains being halted after a suicide, or a car driver delayed by a pile-up in fog.
Its not an outrage its just life in other companies. If you are late no matter what the circumstances then you're docked money as per their rules. Its your responsibility to get to work on time even if it means catching an earlier bus, train or getting in your car sooner. Been there, done that and had it docked in previous employment.
Unfortunately you are correct this is the way working life is outside of royal mail (your late your docked ) but they don't have what we have.........a royal mail manager over seeing it that's the difference

If its done correctly then all adjustments like being late would/should be done offsite at HR/Wages or whatever they are going to call it. But I do agree this is royal mail and there's a big chance it'll have some serious teething issues like anything else they've brought in during my time.

daveyeff · Post by **daveyeff** » 29 Jan 2020, 15:33

wandle wrote:The more disturbing aspect to this data capture is this: at the moment, if you’re late for work, there is a procedure. Based on the circumstances, it’s either excused, or unexcused.
If late attendance caused an automatic docking of pay, that’s an outrage. You may have been delayed on public transport, due to trains being halted after a suicide, or a car driver delayed by a pile-up in fog.
If, however, managers can put a ‘flag’ on the system to allow you to be paid even when late, that means managers gaining local access to data about you, including times on / off the floor. No such access was a cornerstone on the terms of reference for AHDC trials. Managers gaining access to that sort of information should be opposed most aggressively!!

most factories/shops have these kind of rules for being late.(or did, I am going back a bit) if you are say '5 mins' late they can dock you 15 mins, but that being the case, then you would have every right not to start work until they start paying you. so if you are due to start at say 7.am but get in for 7.05am, and they dock you 15mins, then you would be totally in your rights to sit on your arse until 7.15.

Acca Dacca · Post by **Acca Dacca** » 30 Jan 2020, 07:24

Sugar wrote:
wandle wrote:If late attendance caused an automatic docking of pay, that’s an outrage. You may have been delayed on public transport, due to trains being halted after a suicide, or a car driver delayed by a pile-up in fog.
Its not an outrage its just life in other companies. If you are late no matter what the circumstances then you're docked money as per their rules. Its your responsibility to get to work on time even if it means catching an earlier bus, train or getting in your car sooner. Been there, done that and had it docked in previous employment.

Difference is, most of these other companies managed to implement it ( clocking in and deduction of pay ) without a strong union opposition

We have a strong union membership unlike most other companies where they can bring in what they want without any agreements etc

Whats point in having a strong union if you just sit back and say 'ah well other companies do it so we cant complain'

twoloops · Post by **twoloops** » 30 Jan 2020, 07:50

If clocking out on time surly that also ends the claiming of a break at the end of the shift?

Hitcher · Post by **Hitcher** » 30 Jan 2020, 09:11

twoloops wrote:If clocking out on time surly that also ends the claiming of a break at the end of the shift?

Yes.

Why are people so opposed to actually having to take their paid for break?

Post by **Sugar** » 30 Jan 2020, 10:27

Acca Dacca wrote:
Sugar wrote:
wandle wrote:If late attendance caused an automatic docking of pay, that’s an outrage. You may have been delayed on public transport, due to trains being halted after a suicide, or a car driver delayed by a pile-up in fog.
Its not an outrage its just life in other companies. If you are late no matter what the circumstances then you're docked money as per their rules. Its your responsibility to get to work on time even if it means catching an earlier bus, train or getting in your car sooner. Been there, done that and had it docked in previous employment.
Difference is, most of these other companies managed to implement it ( clocking in and deduction of pay ) without a strong union opposition

We have a strong union membership unlike most other companies where they can bring in what they want without any agreements etc

Whats point in having a strong union if you just sit back and say 'ah well other companies do it so we cant complain'

My clocking in and out card from 1988 and we had a very strong unionised workforce.

Clocking in and out isn't something that's just happened in the last decade it's been around for hundreds of years. Royal mail are the only company I've ever worked at that didn't require you to clocking in and out using a machine of some sort. Using pen and paper has been open to abuse and has been abused for as long as I've worked here especially when people used to log their own overtime.

If and when the general public get to hear that employees are kicking off about having to clock in and out everyday they are not going to have any sympathy and probably think we are just being childish.

Post by **Sugar** » 30 Jan 2020, 10:29

twoloops wrote:If clocking out on time surly that also ends the claiming of a break at the end of the shift?

IIRC it's supposed to be against the law to move your break to the end of a shift and then go home early.

clashcityrocker · Post by **clashcityrocker** » 30 Jan 2020, 10:56

Sugar wrote:
twoloops wrote:If clocking out on time surly that also ends the claiming of a break at the end of the shift?
IIRC it's supposed to be against the law to move your break to the end of a shift and then go home early.

It is against the Working Time Directive to put all of the 20 minutes of your legal entitlement at the end (or the beginning) of the shift if you are working more than a 6 hour day.