CWU : The High Court has ruled against us. Genuinely this is an utter outrage. 110,000 workers vs the establishment.

Woody Guthrie · Post by **Woody Guthrie** » 13 Nov 2019, 17:53

The judge is only there to decide whether the law has been broken, they are not there to decide the implications of that breach.

That might happen if Royal Mail decides to sue for damages.

Binsey · Post by **Binsey** » 13 Nov 2019, 17:55

What’s the situation regarding the ParcelForce Ballot?

Rumple · Post by **Rumple** » 13 Nov 2019, 17:56

Binsey wrote:What’s the situation regarding the ParcelForce Ballot?

Their ballot was fine and so can serve notice to strike.

barrychuckle · Post by **barrychuckle** » 13 Nov 2019, 17:57

This may sound a joke. But surely the next ballot paper hast to be sent via Hermes, Amazon, DPD, UPS or one of the others.

Post by **Takeitforaride** » 13 Nov 2019, 17:57

Binsey wrote:What’s the situation regarding the ParcelForce Ballot?

Untouched and still valid as I understand it. No doubt gate meetings are coming.

daveyeff · Post by **daveyeff** » 13 Nov 2019, 18:08

Woody Guthrie wrote:The judge is only there to decide whether the law has been broken, they are not there to decide the implications of that breach.

That might happen if Royal Mail decides to sue for damages.

he didn't just do that though. he cited the general election was a factor in this injunction. which should've had no relevance whatsoever on this case.so it suited him what he thought could tie up the case for RM. STINKS TO HIGH HEAVEN.

Acca Dacca · Post by **Acca Dacca** » 13 Nov 2019, 18:09

General Mannerheim wrote:So what's to stop oh I don't know one of these `part time managers` we all know them ex Posties masquerading as managers when it suits, from in future ballots intercepting their ballot papers as after all they are still CWU members in a lot of cases and filming themselves `voting`? Absolutely nothing. What a crock of s**t this Judges Verdict is!

Thats my argument - it would be nigh on IMPOSSIBLE to ever hold a legitimate ballot in the future if that was the case

I think the clincher in this case though which was there must be evidence of the CWU encouraging or condoning it which they would, well you would hope, never do again.

Flashman_ · Post by **Flashman_** » 13 Nov 2019, 18:11

daveyeff wrote:
Woody Guthrie wrote:The judge is only there to decide whether the law has been broken, they are not there to decide the implications of that breach.

That might happen if Royal Mail decides to sue for damages.
he didn't just do that though. he cited the general election was a factor in this injunction. which should've had no relevance whatsoever on this case.so it suited him what he thought could tie up the case for RM. STINKS TO HIGH HEAVEN.

Absolutely citing the GW is totally outside the remit of this judge and so CWU should appeal on those terms.

daveyeff · Post by **daveyeff** » 13 Nov 2019, 18:15

well they are appealing it. so lets hope.

mattjo1@talktalk.net · Post by **mattjo1@talktalk.net** » 13 Nov 2019, 18:18

We just have to accept we lost another one to Royal Mail.

You have to blame the union for the badly run campaign

work · Post by **work** » 13 Nov 2019, 18:18

Flashman wrote: He also cited the Election which should have no bearing on the case and by citing it he has clearly judged this case on something that he has absolutely no right to do.
This Judgement has now added a new union breaking law that means any well organised anti union faction could easily nullify any Union ballot by posting certain things on fb, or any social media outlet. We should now call on support from other Unions to help fight this.[/quote]

Amnesty International is the world's leading human rights organisation, campaigning against injustice and inequality everywhere...Amnesty International is a non-governmental organization based in the United Kingdom focused on human rights...WE NEED TO GET A PETITION GOING: tHE Labour PARTY should now step in. PEOPLE SHOULD BE MOBILISED IN SUPPORT OF OUR DEMOCRATIC RIGHTS TO IA...

the law is an ass...and the judge is obviously an aged Tory postal voter, who's social circle is entirely cut-off from reality...whilst we are still in the EU: WHAT ABOUT THE EUROPEAN COURT OF HUMAN RIGHTS ON APPEAL?
the company is proven corrupt (£50 million fine yesterday) and this is how it today respects our union, they have rubbished us publicly and so to it: we should now look to higher support in our appeal to overturn this decision:

whose democracy is at stake here, Judge...the cwu has not promised to disrupt the GE...SO WHERE DO YOU GET OFF CALLING US OUT ON THAT?...methinks he has let his personal beliefs affect his judgement.

My judgement is although flawed, the workers have spoken en masse and to ignore them now will be UNDEMOCRATIC. Why o why is standing up for your rights seen by so many as frightening. It is merely being listened to. We had an agreement. RM BROKE IT. they refused mediators report. they now refute our ballot. they have lost the plot: a war on the workers rights/terms/conditions/pensions/pay/allowances/future will be a reet bloody mess. I feel sorry for them as they will have to implement this shocking decision over the next few weeks...with zero support from an overwhelming majority of staff. Who'd be a manager this christmas? Stick that in yer stocking.

Post by **POSTMAN** » 13 Nov 2019, 18:18

The CWU gave Royal Mail the straws to clutch at, some of you need to let go of what imaginary straw you have got...

'Breaking ballot rules'

This included, the company said, union members "being encouraged to open their ballot papers on site, mark them as 'yes', with their colleagues present and filming or photographing them doing so, before posting their ballots together at their workplace postboxes".

Royal Mail said this amounted to a "de facto workplace ballot", contrary to rules on industrial action, to maximise the turnout and the "yes" vote.

Royal Mail's procedures state that employees cannot open their mail at delivery offices without the prior authorisation of their manager.

But CWU lawyers argued there was no evidence of interference with the ballot and that "legitimate partisan campaigning" by the union in favour of a "yes" vote did not violate the rules.

In the High Court, Mr Justice Swift said in his judgement: "This was an interference that was accurately described as improper. Strike ballots should be postal ballots. Each voter should receive a voting paper at home.

"What CWU did was a form of subversion of the ballot process. It was an interference with voting."

Acca Dacca · Post by **Acca Dacca** » 13 Nov 2019, 18:23

Its the word 'encouraged' that is the key

CWU cannot stop its members intercepting their mail to vote - or film themselves doing so in their DO

They can however discourage it - and not post the videos on their official social media pages

If it was just the act in and of itself that made it unlawful then no ballot would be deemed lawful in the future EVER as there would always be one tw@ who done something daft

Its the condoning, the encouragement and the posting of said acts on social media CWU pages that has done us IF there is evidence of that

world class male · Post by **world class male** » 13 Nov 2019, 18:25

if the judge also cited the general election as part of his reasoning then surely he could have and should have said no strikes allowed until the actual election day,
this would appease both sides giving us the option to plan strike as our (not so democratic) right, the parties posting their bumf chance to deliver along with all the voting forms and more importantly a big boot up the arses to get talking seriously
but, we've been screwed and we probably lubed ourselves up, not that i'm in to that!

nuisance · Post by **nuisance** » 13 Nov 2019, 18:28

Not acceptable.

Total BS. This must not be stomached one way or another. Hope the Union has a half way decent counter move ready this time.