Royal Mail in legal bid to block national Christmas strike : CWU response

daveyeff · Post by **daveyeff** » 09 Nov 2019, 12:58

from one of the area reps Newcastle amal. ''ITS OFFICIAL. RM HATES DEMOCRACY. you will be aware that Rico 'big brother' Back and his board of totalitarians have applied to the high court for an injunction to try and nullify our national strike ballot. the injunction application will be heard on Tuesday 12th November. the CWU will be vigorously defending our ballot result. and opposing this anti-democratic application. Royal Mails alleged ballot irregularities are:- 1. CWU reps encouraged members to vote YES in the ballot. REALLY?..how disgraceful. 2. some D.O. members completed their own ballot paper in within their workplace...HOW TERRIBLE!! 3. some members were filmed posting their completed ballot paper into a Royal Mail pillar box. WHAT WERE THEY THINKING? .. this is a disgraceful and desperate attempt by Royal Mail to try and overturn a democratic decision taken by THEIR employees which produced a massive 97% YES vote. what RM should be doing, is agreeing to enter into meaningful negotiations with the union. instead they have effectively sulked in the corner of a room, refusing to engage with the union and resolve this dispute. we submitted our national to RM in May 2019. we sought meaningful negotiations, RM refused. we entered into mediation with RM in early October. we proposed both sides should immediately commence negotiations. RM refused. we have AGAIN offered to enter into negotiations without any preconditions. RM has AGAIN refused. RM did offer to enter into negotiations without any preconditions(so they say)-except that the union would have to provide a legal guarantee that we would not take any strike action until 2020. typical doublespeak from the board in their 1984 Orwellian worldview. whilst RM are contemptuous of your views , the CWU are not. stay focused. WE WILL WIN THIS DISPUTE.

Schiff · Post by **Schiff** » 09 Nov 2019, 15:02

world class male wrote:
aiden01 wrote:
world class male wrote:
Schiff wrote:
stoneybroke wrote:How ironic that as we approach the 11th of November (a day to remember OUR fallen heroes who were fighting for OUR democracy) Royal Mail go running to the courts with some bullshit technicality to void the result of a democratic vote.
They should hang their heads in shame and I just hope that the courts see this for what it is.
It is those who broke the laws regarding trade union ballots and then posted evidence of them doing so on social media who should hang their heads in shame. Their sabotage may have cost us all the opportunity of fighting to keep this as a decent job.

Either we hear soon that the union has expelled them all or else I give up my membership. Working alongside these idiots in the future would be far worse than working alongside strikebreakers.
WTF?
we were all encouraged to immediately put x in the yes box and post pic on social media by that cwu promo guy!

pretty sure management are posting on here tonight trying to provoke
Therein lies the problem facebook twitter an whatever social media bollox you can post your face rm are saying it basically agaibst there ( own special laws)
to be honest, though not really explained or highlighted (until now) it definitely is against company policy to open your own mail if you work in that office, I've even seen my line manager taking his to dom to get it endorsed beforehand, and the use of cameras is definitely a no no, be it data protection, official secrets act or just mail integrity, they will use this against us i'm afraid and probably win,
the pics/videos outside posting into a public pillar box are fine, anything inside simply isn't allowed

The problem is nothing to do with RM rules. It is all about the laws governing trade union ballots. A workplace ballot is unlawful as undue pressure can be placed on people to vote in a certain way. This is why ballot papers must be delivered to each member's home address so that they can choose to vote whichever way that they want, or even not to vote at all.

Muppets breaking those rules have probably cost us the chance to take industrial action at the best possible time. They may have cost thousands of jobs - but it was all just a laugh. They didn't know what they were doing. Its facebook innit!

tucker12345 · Post by **tucker12345** » 09 Nov 2019, 15:26

Royal Mail are trying to brake this union if they weren’t taking us to court about this reason it would have been some other reason . We need to stick together solidarity and they will never brake us .

Woody Guthrie · Post by **Woody Guthrie** » 09 Nov 2019, 15:36

The problem is nothing to do with RM rules. It is all about the laws governing trade union ballots. A workplace ballot is unlawful as undue pressure can be placed on people to vote in a certain way. This is why ballot papers must be delivered to each member's home address so that they can choose to vote whichever way that they want, or even not to vote at all.

Muppets breaking those rules have probably cost us the chance to take industrial action at the best possible time. They may have cost thousands of jobs - but it was all just a laugh. They didn't know what they were doing. Its facebook innit!

Somebody gets it 100%.
How much of this nonsense backslapping was posted on the official CWU Facebook page?
That's the smoking gun.

daveyeff · Post by **daveyeff** » 09 Nov 2019, 15:50

it wasn't a workplace ballot though. the fact some over enthusiastic idiots chose to open their ballot papers at work should not be blamed on the CWU. is there actual evidence of union reps pressurising people to open their ballot papers and intimidating them to vote yes.

Woody Guthrie · Post by **Woody Guthrie** » 09 Nov 2019, 15:58

daveyeff wrote:it wasn't a workplace ballot though.

If RM can show that representatives of the union encouraged members to open their ballot papers and vote in the workplace it was a workplace ballot.

It doesn't matter whether it was one office or a thousand, it doesn't matter if it would have materially affected the result, it doesn't matter if it's fair if they can show union participation in an unlawful ballot it's done.

daveyeff · Post by **daveyeff** » 09 Nov 2019, 16:03

they'll have to show members being intimidated by to reps to open their ballot papers and vote yes. didn't happen.

Schiff · Post by **Schiff** » 09 Nov 2019, 16:17

daveyeff wrote:they'll have to show members being intimidated by to reps to open their ballot papers and vote yes. didn't happen.

No. They simply have to show that the ballot papers weren't delivered to each member's home address - which they weren't.

That makes it possible for intimidation or coercion to take place. They don't have to prove that intimidation or coercion did happen, They simply need to show that the electoral rules specifically intended to make sure that it can't happen weren't followed. Again, they weren't.

daveyeff · Post by **daveyeff** » 09 Nov 2019, 16:27

CWU can't be held responsible for members opening/intercepting ballot papers before they reached members homes. they were sent out by CWU to members homes.

Schiff · Post by **Schiff** » 09 Nov 2019, 16:37

daveyeff wrote:CWU can't be held responsible for members opening/intercepting ballot papers before they reached members homes. they were sent out by CWU to members homes.

I really would like to think that, but realistically I am certain that these numpties have screwed the lot of us.

bo72 · Post by **bo72** » 09 Nov 2019, 17:03

Maybe the union could show that royal mail were at fault for not protecting the integrity of the mail. After all they were obviously aware what was going on but didn't try to stop it.

Woody Guthrie · Post by **Woody Guthrie** » 09 Nov 2019, 17:20

daveyeff wrote:CWU can't be held responsible for members opening/intercepting ballot papers before they reached members homes. they were sent out by CWU to members homes.

If unit/branch/national reps encouraged it they can.
If pics of it were retweeted on twitter by any official CWU account they can.
If videos/pics were posted or reposted on any official CWU Facebook group or account they can.
Basically if there is any evidence at all of active CWU endorsement... they are going to be held accountable.

LouBarlow · Post by **LouBarlow** » 09 Nov 2019, 17:49

It is all going to boil down to what evidence Royal Mail have. I am subscribed to pretty much all of the CWU groups on Facebook and can't remember ever seeing anything on there that might have triggered this. I guess we find out next week.

daveyeff · Post by **daveyeff** » 09 Nov 2019, 18:01

I think their evidence is assumptive and jumped up. a picture of a D.O. workforce lining up outside a postbox to put their ballot papers in is not evidence. every single one of those staff might have received their ballot papers at their homes. a few at my workplace ASKED the rep to photograph/video them filling their papers in.

Danelectro · Post by **Danelectro** » 09 Nov 2019, 18:26

LouBarlow wrote:It is all going to boil down to what evidence Royal Mail have. I am subscribed to pretty much all of the CWU groups on Facebook and can't remember ever seeing anything on there that might have triggered this. I guess we find out next week.

The strategy (if your home address is served by the DO you work in) came from HQ and all reps were told to encourage voting and returning on site so as many ballots as possible were returned on the same day.

This was encouraged alongside taking photos/social media in general and no guidelines were offered on ballot compliance and what not to do.

Any time it was queried HQ insisted that everything regarding the ballot was overseen by a top QC.