So what do us folk with a 25 hr contract do, we only get 4hrs 30 for delivery and travel time
The only two options for those on less than full-time contracts would be to increase the contract or decrease the number of days.
Both would be a major headache for the business so I don't think either are on the cards.
It's probably just another scare tactic from either the union or the business but like I said even for full-time staff it's not the frightener it used to be when we were 40 hrs. (even less if we get the extra hour owed)
First of all it's not that unusual to be out for 5 hours in some cases usually involving overtime and to actually try to plan in a 5 hr first to last letter would be impossible in a lot of the country now, too many part-time staff for most of us outside London.
Decrease the number of days? , BRING IT ON!! , id sooner do a longer span for 4 days and have 3 off
Martin Walsh wrote:I have only reveal what Terry mentioned on one of the Facebook live sessions he did.
Thanks Martin but tbf you kinda knew that + various bits of info before the Facebook malarkey, you don't have to sit through that dross to get info.
Now, the Facebook malarkey, I do not have the time, the will, the patience, the mindset to sit and watch the various mind numbing live sessions that happen just to get the various social media figures up and to then justify a pay rise for Webby.
How about the text of the sessions put out in an LTB or a news item, bit's and bobs are being missed due to the obsession with social media!
Tel Webby to do an old friend a favour, and for the RMC loons as well.
Ta
I Wrote-During Covid-Which is still relevant now
It's good to get these types of threads, the ridiculous my manager said bollox, so we can reassure ourselves that while the world is falling apart, Royal Mail managers are still being the low-life C***S they have always been. My BFF Clash The daily grind of having to argue your case with an intellectual pigmy of a line manager is physically and emotionally draining.
So what do us folk with a 25 hr contract do, we only get 4hrs 30 for delivery and travel time
The only two options for those on less than full-time contracts would be to increase the contract or decrease the number of days.
Both would be a major headache for the business so I don't think either are on the cards.
It's probably just another scare tactic from either the union or the business but like I said even for full-time staff it's not the frightener it used to be when we were 40 hrs. (even less if we get the extra hour owed)
First of all it's not that unusual to be out for 5 hours in some cases usually involving overtime and to actually try to plan in a 5 hr first to last letter would be impossible in a lot of the country now, too many part-time staff for most of us outside London.
Decrease the number of days? , BRING IT ON!! , id sooner do a longer span for 4 days and have 3 off
Wallington weeks RM want rid of them do not even know if any office still has them RM would rather you work 7 days and unpaid for all.
Jpro747 wrote:Left office at 8:40 returning 14:40 so that’s a 6 hour delivery on a Saturday!
It's not though. The 5hr delivery span is to be timed from the first delivery point to the last, excluding breaks and travel time. Not timed from leaving the office till you return. Without anymore info your delivery appears to be roughly 5hrs (which IMO is too big to be sustainable long term on anyone's health)
So what do us folk with a 25 hr contract do, we only get 4hrs 30 for delivery and travel time
yes and regardless of what they want ( 5hr , 1st to last letter ) your meal relief and travel out your travel back and pouching off etc is still within your working daily hours as that time doesnt just vanish or do they think you would work that time for free , but you will still have a finish time as o/t is voluntary and not compulsory , we do 6+ now and we still dont complete
Mmmm strike action? Yeah I suppose we could go down that route? Get the braziers out and the banners out but I don't think we can at the moment ( social distancing max 6 people etc etc) but we can all sit at home while royal mail interview new candidates for what once was our jobs! People need to get a grip and look outside the royal mail bubble in the real world of work at the moment we have a new generation of couldn't give a shite look after no1 who will gladly without a second thought walk through your picket line (which won't be there anyway) to take your job and they won't give a flying f@#k about the inferior terms and conditions royal mail will give them, on my travels I'm in contact with loads of couriers who are subcontract and payed an absolute pittance and are working none stop and can only dream of the conditions we have
Martin Walsh wrote:It is difficult for the union to give updates as talks are bound by confidentiality. I have only reveal what Terry mentioned on one of the Facebook live sessions he did. But believe me the things Royal Mail want to change are significant and no one would accept for the type of pay deal on offer.
For the record BSi is a based on planning values and a British Standard. So each task in either in processing or indoor delivery is rated on a planning value. So for example what a 1000 letters should take to sort against what it did take to sort.
The outdoor element is measured by observed times where they measured 30 thousand delivery duties during the ACAS delivery to neighbour discussions.
100 BSi is measured as someone who is considered as motivated and has a full head of workload.
For the record there are offices up and down the uk in every city working at well over 100 if fact the highest record was at 288 BSi. Remember there are unmeasured parts of BSi so it is not an exact measure as it is based on national averages rather than your own office specifics.
Woody very few offices are working at 5 hours excluding travel time and first door to last door only.
Martin Walsh wrote:The outdoor element is measured by observed times where they measured 30 thousand delivery duties during the ACAS delivery to neighbour discussions.
They've also got many months worth of PDA actuals data as well
Martin Walsh wrote:It is difficult for the union to give updates as talks are bound by confidentiality. I have only reveal what Terry mentioned on one of the Facebook live sessions he did. But believe me the things Royal Mail want to change are significant and no one would accept for the type of pay deal on offer.
For the record BSi is a based on planning values and a British Standard. So each task in either in processing or indoor delivery is rated on a planning value. So for example what a 1000 letters should take to sort against what it did take to sort.
The outdoor element is measured by observed times where they measured 30 thousand delivery duties during the ACAS delivery to neighbour discussions.
100 BSi is measured as someone who is considered as motivated and has a full head of workload.
For the record there are offices up and down the uk in every city working at well over 100 if fact the highest record was at 288 BSi. Remember there are unmeasured parts of BSi so it is not an exact measure as it is based on national averages rather than your own office specifics.
Woody very few offices are working at 5 hours excluding travel time and first door to last door only.
Martin will there be vrs ?
Max of 102 weeks pay ?
well if they want longer deliveries, i would say its inevitable that there will be VRs. the extra work put onto deliveries will come from carving up other existing duties to make them longer and the duties that are carved up will then become redundant. as for the 102 weeks pay, i think RM will try to weasel their way out of that if they can.
Martin Walsh wrote:
The company wants massive reductions in costs including 5 hour delivery spans .
5 hour delivery spans or 5 hour outdoor spans?
Delivery spans, so from 1st to last letter then travel time is added onto that.
Our rep told us a couple of years ago that senior managers were after a total of 6 hours outdoors and most in the office just laughed. Bet they're not now.
Martin Walsh wrote:
The company wants massive reductions in costs including 5 hour delivery spans .
5 hour delivery spans or 5 hour outdoor spans?
Delivery spans, so from 1st to last letter then travel time is added onto that.
Our rep told us a couple of years ago that senior managers were after a total of 6 hours outdoors and most in the office just laughed. Bet they're not now.
A 5hr first to last letter would only be possible in offices with a high ratio of full-time staff and excess indoor hours.
For most of us we've already increased our indoor efficiency and part-time ratio to the point where there aren't enough indoor hours left to extend the outdoor operation.
That was always the trade off when building revisions and offices that held onto a high full-time ratio knew that it had to ultimately be paid for with a longer delivery span.
Since this will disproportionately affect areas like London which have in the main had the best of both worlds I expect the union to put up a fight despite the fact that they've done nothing to protect the rest of the country from the same thing.
Martin Walsh wrote:
The company wants massive reductions in costs including 5 hour delivery spans .
5 hour delivery spans or 5 hour outdoor spans?
Delivery spans, so from 1st to last letter then travel time is added onto that.
Our rep told us a couple of years ago that senior managers were after a total of 6 hours outdoors and most in the office just laughed. Bet they're not now.
A 5hr first to last letter would only be possible in offices with a high ratio of full-time staff and excess indoor hours.
For most of us we've already increased our indoor efficiency and part-time ratio to the point where there aren't enough indoor hours left to extend the outdoor operation.
That was always the trade off when building revisions and offices that held onto a high full-time ratio knew that it had to ultimately be paid for with a longer delivery span.
Since this will disproportionately affect areas like London which have in the main had the best of both worlds I expect the union to put up a fight despite the fact that they've done nothing to protect the rest of the country from the same thing.
Agree with what you're saying but this is RM and we all know that they haven't got a scooby of an idea of what actually happens on the frontline. DO's have been so badly run for the last decade and figures fudged so much by inept managers chasing bonuses and pandering to their overtime buddies that any wholesale changes will inevitably lead to chaos. RM are purely looking at incorrect PDA data and its incorrect because its incompetent managers have continued to allow bad working practises to continue with starting early, missing breaks etc that on the face of it all that data captured makes it look like there are hours to be saved indoors and out when in fact the hours just aren't there if every staff member did the job correctly.
We had the area big wig spouting off at the backend of last year to our rep that a revision should be done because the collected data showed that there was enough hours not being worked that they could pull out around 4-6 duties in the office. This in an office that had around 80% of the workforce starting before their time and some were in an hour or more early everyday, no trollies being used and either no break or 5-10 minutes at most taken to chug down a coffee and cram in a sandwich, running on delivery and green binning parcels was rife.
As long as the workers keep cutting corners and supplying incorrect data the company are just going to keep coming out with unachievable ideas like this but keep telling the union and its reps that they have the data to prove it can be done. Data supplied by the very same workers cutting corners who are moaning it can't be done. The workers are their own worst enemies. As someone once said to me "only an idiot gives themselves more work to do".
( 5hr , 1st to last letter ) your meal relief and travel out your travel back and pouching off etc is still within your working daily hours as that time doesnt just vanish or do they think you would work that time for free 
, but you will still have a finish time as o/t is voluntary and not compulsory , we do 6+ now and we still dont complete 
at the moment we have a new generation of couldn't give a shite look after no1 who will gladly without a second thought walk through your picket line (which won't be there anyway) to take your job and they won't give a flying f@#k about the inferior terms and conditions royal mail will give them, on my travels I'm in contact with loads of couriers who are subcontract and payed an absolute pittance and are working none stop and can only dream of the conditions we have