LTB 352/20 Joint Statement - Royal Mail Group and the CWU :Pt 2

[worktotime]

Wouldn't surprise me if they were to take loads of hours out of offices

Keep working on the new one liners

How often have you known the objective of a revision to not be to take hours out of the office?

the use of pda data maybe ? which the CWU where against the use of for revisions

Every revision is now due to be based on PDA data, if they will for these revisions is anybodys guess.

My guess for what it's worth is that it will include some form of split shift to keep numbers in the office down and the vans working to their full potential. Whatever they come up with it ain't going to be popular

Oh and i nearly forgot will they go for "skills" over seniority?

and what about non drivers ? , my p&l partner is a non driver . and as for social distancing its a bit late when the gov has reduced it , and youve got pubs opening on the 4th July .

[norris9]

In relation to revisions and signed for duties. I guess a lot of Posties are happy with their duty as it is, maybe it's just right/fair or better, maybe even very easy....

What I want to ask is....

A hypothetical situation..... say you signed for a duty and this duty is easy, you know it's easy, maybe you drag it out and finish on time or maybe you drag it out and finish around 15 minutes early on average. Your duty is part of a van share, but as Covid is around you are going out on your own in a van to do your duty. Your van share partners round is hard, it's impossible to complete in time.....ok, you might be nice and agree and take some extra post....but I am wondering if taking that extra post is up to you and up to you only, you have the final say?

Right now is probably the prime time to revise individual duties as everyone is doing their individual duty and it should be clear as day which single duties are too big and which are too small. There are surely van share posties up and down the country where 1 half of the van share is finishing 20+ minutes late while the other is finishing 20+ minutes early.

I understand that 95% of the time these van share duties go out as van shares, but there are times Posties, typically reserves, are sent out on these rounds individually and have zero chance of completing them if they get the half of the van share that equates to 60%+ and are going out blind then they can be 1.5 to 2 hours past their time if they choose to complete. If they don't complete then you may come in the next day to a load of undelivered post.

[A2B]

and what about non drivers ? , my p&l partner is a non driver . and as for social distancing its a bit late when the gov has reduced it , and youve got pubs opening on the 4th July .

Have to wait and see what they come up with for non drivers and the people who do drive but there's not enough vans, it will obviously be different in every office.

As for social distancing, can we stop going round in circles? Until RM say it's back it ain't happening

[SpacePhoenix]

and what about non drivers ? , my p&l partner is a non driver . and as for social distancing its a bit late when the gov has reduced it , and youve got pubs opening on the 4th July .

How many HCT rounds are there around the DO compared with the number of non-drivers?

[A2B]

and what about non drivers ? , my p&l partner is a non driver . and as for social distancing its a bit late when the gov has reduced it , and youve got pubs opening on the 4th July .

How many HCT rounds are there around the DO compared with the number of non-drivers?

Each office will be different, depends on where the DO is located

[matthew68]

Wouldn't surprise me if they were to take loads of hours out of offices

They could start by having full timers actually working there hours

[andyman606]

We have duties the old boys/arse kissers do that take half the time of the new part timers duties....time for clocking in and out methinks will be piss funny to see the slack barstools having to actually do a full days work....bring it on.
About time the workload was evened out even if it means more work we have a start and finish time but some members of the same grade feel they should work 20-25 hours a week for 38 hours pay.
There is a change to implement straight away but obviously as usual this won't be addressed.
What will be will be--there will be bigger problems to come outside of royal mail soon...second wave is coming!!!!! Via Barnsley.
See you down the pub for a stale ale & Corona crisps

[norris9]

If most depots are like ours..... then the amount of inefficiency across the whole of Royal Mail must be huge.

The rounds are not at all even and nothing is done to fix it.

People going out paid on overtime to cover failing walks when 10 Posties have gone home 30 minutes to 2 hours early.

What a waste of money. No wonder RM is losing money.

Get the rounds evened out !!! get them evened out now !!!

Is it even that hard to do? or is there bureaucratic nonsense to get passed?

[Woody Guthrie]

Is it even that hard to do? or is there bureaucratic nonsense to get passed?

If you ask 10 guys in your office to make two duties even you'll get 10 different results.

The business has even tried leaving it to "professional" planners and computer programmes and that was an absolute shambles.

The only defining position in Royal Mail is that everyone's duty is always easier than yours.

Obsessing about making all the duties even is a pointless waste of time, money and energy. The business should simply focus on ensuring that everyone works their contracted hours and all of the duties are manageable inside these hours. That's the starting point for efficiency improvement.

[norris9]

Is it even that hard to do? or is there bureaucratic nonsense to get passed?

If you ask 10 guys in your office to make two duties even you'll get 10 different results.

The business has even tried leaving it to "professional" planners and computer programmes and that was an absolute shambles.

The only defining position in Royal Mail is that everyone's duty is always easier than yours.

Obsessing about making all the duties even is a pointless waste of time, money and energy. The business should simply focus on ensuring that everyone works their contracted hours and all of the duties are manageable inside these hours. That's the starting point for efficiency improvement.

Well maybe it's not that bad in other offices. I know rounds in our office that are completed with 1 hour to spare whereas neighbouring rounds take the Posties on those rounds 20 minutes over on a regular basis. It doesn't take a genius to give the round that is too easy some of the round that is too long.

It also doesn't take much for a manager to ask other Posties that get moved around which round they think is too easy and which are too hard.

I don't think looking at PDA actuals is that effective in determining if a round is too long or too short as if rounds are too short a lot of posties will pace themselves. For PDA data to accurately represent what I round is like, RM need to get one or several posties who are trustworthy and goes at a good and fair pace and move them around the depot asking them to take the PDA with them everywhere and that will give them the accurate data to go off.

I think you know what is easy and what is hard to complete by doing the actual rounds.

It would not take that long to do. Stick them on a job for 1 or 2 weeks and see what they report back and what the PDA data says..... ok, it was 10-15 minutes short 4 out of 5 days, ok - noted.

[yubin282]

Every office has the same problems with hard/easy duties. I have a float there's one duty that i hate but everyone else thinks its easy because the regular literally runs along the street and starts early as does his partner (usually by at least 45 mins)

[Sugar]

The DOM in my old office in January was banging on to the rep about pushing through a revision in September and the rep was against it for a number of reasons.

Now the union come out with another joint statement saying revisions are on the horizon. So nothings changed and RM are going to get their way with hours getting culled from offices and deliveries obviously increasing in size because the data on the PDA's will be a right load of bollock$ due to the way you've all had to fudge it from day to day.

What a set of coc£wombles the union top table are. Another clusterfuc£ on the horizon for you lot.

[Pikeman180]

How many rounds in your offices have had new property`s/delivery points added, and not 1 minute extra put on? Plus deliver to neighbour, scanning, collections all added again without 1 extra minute added to round? And they want to take hours out???

[mjd24]

I still always return to these thoughts and questions:

If a postie is regularly finishing lets say 1 hour early, but that duty has been thoroughly planned and said to be just right . . .

A) do we take into account that this postie might be very fast/productive at his/her job

B) do we take into account that this postie has chosen not to use his/her trolley, which we would most agree adds a fair bit of time to a delivery (maybe even taking them to their finish time and even beyond on certain days)

C) or do we simply add more onto this delivery, knowing that we might be making this postie do more work than others based on the above factors.

Surely the fairest/easiest solution is to plan the rounds with as much care as possible, and then accept that us posties are human and our paces etc will vary.

I just think that the way things are going with lapsing lapsing lapsing and people being sent back out or not allowed to leave the DO etc . . . its just such a messy way of doing things and creates so much stress and anger and conflict and in reality how much money does/will it save. Surely there will come a point when we will all just start to ease our pace a bit, or stop feeling as though we have to rush around to get the extra lapsing done.

“Youve got to accept youre going to be working your full hours going forward” is something we regularly get told. Ok then, but that could backfire in a big way if we more and more start leaving stuff/cutting off. I feel like we are all working at a faster pace already than any “minimum standard” they might bring in. Most of us have been sort of programmed to work at a certain pace based on years of job and finish as well as sometimes a fear of not getting it all done in time which results in going faster than you should rather than face the stress of “im gonna struggle today”.

[norris9]

I still always return to these thoughts and questions:

If a postie is regularly finishing lets say 1 hour early, but that duty has been thoroughly planned and said to be just right . . .

A) do we take into account that this postie might be very fast/productive at his/her job

B) do we take into account that this postie has chosen not to use his/her trolley, which we would most agree adds a fair bit of time to a delivery (maybe even taking them to their finish time and even beyond on certain days)

C) or do we simply add more onto this delivery, knowing that we might be making this postie do more work than others based on the above factors.

Surely the fairest/easiest solution is to plan the rounds with as much care as possible, and then accept that us posties are human and our paces etc will vary.

I just think that the way things are going with lapsing lapsing lapsing and people being sent back out or not allowed to leave the DO etc . . . its just such a messy way of doing things and creates so much stress and anger and conflict and in reality how much money does/will it save. Surely there will come a point when we will all just start to ease our pace a bit, or stop feeling as though we have to rush around to get the extra lapsing done.

“Youve got to accept youre going to be working your full hours going forward” is something we regularly get told. Ok then, but that could backfire in a big way if we more and more start leaving stuff/cutting off. I feel like we are all working at a faster pace already than any “minimum standard” they might bring in. Most of us have been sort of programmed to work at a certain pace based on years of job and finish as well as sometimes a fear of not getting it all done in time which results in going faster than you should rather than face the stress of “im gonna struggle today”.

If someone is regularly finishing an hour early and they have started on time and taken their breaks, then the round is clearly too short. If the float also comes back an hour early then that confirms it's too short.

Goes for any round if the float + regular posties are finishing early on a regular basis, whether it be by 20mins or 1 hour.

Obviously this should be assessed over a long period. Surely every manager knows what rounds are easy and what rounds are too long, but why nothing is done about it I don't know....

Is it too much of a pain to move the street and numbering labels from one frame to another + have some moaning postie ranting at being given more post? is there some bureaucratic thing in place where post cannot be added to a posties round unless they agree to it?

I don't get it. If all rounds were fairly put together then it would fix so many issues and make the business more efficient and increase profits.

For some reason they are happy for Posties to go over their time on the long rounds and claim excess, while the easier rounds get to go home 20 to 40 minutes early.

It's utter madness.


You can get a good idea of which rounds are too long and which rounds are too short simply by speaking to Posties that get moved around. They will tell you what is too short and what is too long. If you get a lot of the same opinions then you know where to look deeper to see if there are inconsistencies.

I don't think the PDA data is worth using, managers should just speak to Posties.