Mandatory Facemasks

[tabact]

If they have a genuine medical condition or disability the business will have to attempt to make reasonable adjustments to their duty where possible.

This is the problem though in mail centres where pretty much everything involves group activities. Once the exempt person is inside the building they are potentially more of a risk than somebody who is wearing a mask. If it's not possible to isolate them from other workers what do you do? It might be discriminatory in normal circumstances against the individual but these are not normal circumstances. You have to try to protect all your staff and if one person doesn't have a mask on it's pointless making it mandatory for other staff.

[wandle]

I do have a legitimate reason for not wearing a face mask, but we all know how managers do not keep personal information confidential, they gossip more than the staff!
If not wearing a mask endangers other staff, then everyone who has chosen not to wear one voluntarily up until this point has - if your logic is applied - been reckless as to the risks of infecting others.

[tabact]

I do have a legitimate reason for not wearing a face mask, but we all know how managers do not keep personal information confidential, they gossip more than the staff!
If not wearing a mask endangers other staff, then everyone who has chosen not to wear one voluntarily up until this point has - if your logic is applied - been reckless as to the risks of infecting others.

I personally don't think everybody wearing masks will make much difference as too many people don't wear them properly and yes people have probably been reckless by not wearing face coverings. I'm one of many who work on the basis it isn't going to happen to me and if it does so be it but there are many who have always chosen to wear a mask and are uncomfortable around people who don't. This is the Angard section so as agency workers you accept RM staff are always rightly going to get preference for the few roles in a MC where you can keep reasonably distant from other people. I tried wearing a mask last night and I found it uncomfortable very quickly but plenty of other people doing the same work don't have an issue with it. My reasoning at the moment is if the MC is so dangerous everybody needs to wear a mask do I want to be there as I'm in a higher risk group. I've got till Monday to find some sort of face covering I find comfortable, if I don't then that's probably me finished with Angard.

[Woody Guthrie]

The list of relevant places does NOT include Royal Mail or a plethora of other businesses. Those regulations only apply to shops, shopping centres, banks, and Post Offices (which are of course owned by the government and no longer part of Royal Mail plc):

There is a new and longer list here...

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... 5-november" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Which does include.

storage and distribution facilities

Are we a distribution facility?

[wandle]

I do have a legitimate reason for not wearing a face mask, but we all know how managers do not keep personal information confidential, they gossip more than the staff!
If not wearing a mask endangers other staff, then everyone who has chosen not to wear one voluntarily up until this point has - if your logic is applied - been reckless as to the risks of infecting others.

I personally don't think everybody wearing masks will make much difference as too many people don't wear them properly and yes people have probably been reckless by not wearing face coverings. I'm one of many who work on the basis it isn't going to happen to me and if it does so be it but there are many who have always chosen to wear a mask and are uncomfortable around people who don't. This is the Angard section so as agency workers you accept RM staff are always rightly going to get preference for the few roles in a MC where you can keep reasonably distant from other people. I tried wearing a mask last night and I found it uncomfortable very quickly but plenty of other people doing the same work don't have an issue with it. My reasoning at the moment is if the MC is so dangerous everybody needs to wear a mask do I want to be there as I'm in a higher risk group. I've got till Monday to find some sort of face covering I find comfortable, if I don't then that's probably me finished with Angard.

I have every sympathy with the position you find yourself in. Don’t know what I’d have done in your position years ago, when I was agency staff working in Royal Mail

[k979aaa]

Very blunt tool for those who have a reason as reasons are not excepted now we can go on here for hours why but if you tolerate this then your children will be next.

[wandle]

Very blunt tool for those who have a reason as reasons are not excepted now we can go on here for hours why but if you tolerate this then your children will be next.

The union are trying to convince people that those with a medical exemption must comply under Health & Safety regulations.
They need to look at the laws around face coverings:

Face coverings are not classed as personal protective equipment (PPE) because:

there is currently no need to conform to a manufacturing standard
they do not provide protection for work risks such as dust and spray

Source:
https://www.hse.gov.uk/coronavirus/ppe- ... -masks.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It should be obvious to anyone that a face covering made from a cut-up t-shirt cannot possibly be considered as PPE.

Indeed, the first paragraph of the HSE page linked to states:

Face coverings are mainly intended to protect others and not the wearer.

So, they are de-facto not Personal protective equipment

[Woody Guthrie]

Something doesn't need to be PPE in order for it to be covered under Health and Safety.
Our footwear (other than steel toe-capped) is not PPE but management can send you home to change if they consider it unsuitable or dangerous.

[wandle]

Something doesn't need to be PPE in order for it to be covered under Health and Safety.
Our footwear (other than steel toe-capped) is not PPE but management can send you home to change if they consider it unsuitable or dangerous.

When exactly would you be wearing footwear that *isn’t* steel toe-capped, in a Royal Mail office?

[Woody Guthrie]

Something doesn't need to be PPE in order for it to be covered under Health and Safety.
Our footwear (other than steel toe-capped) is not PPE but management can send you home to change if they consider it unsuitable or dangerous.

When exactly would you be wearing footwear that isn’t steel toe-capped, in a Royal Mail office?

The vast majority of Royal Mail footwear used in delivery isn't steel toe-capped.
You've obviously never had to walk for 4-5 hours.

[wandle]

Something doesn't need to be PPE in order for it to be covered under Health and Safety.
Our footwear (other than steel toe-capped) is not PPE but management can send you home to change if they consider it unsuitable or dangerous.

When exactly would you be wearing footwear that isn’t steel toe-capped, in a Royal Mail office?

The vast majority of Royal Mail footwear used in delivery isn't steel toe-capped.
You've obviously never had to walk for 4-5 hours.

No, not obvious at all.
You’ve not considered that some people have to wear steel toe-capped boots from entering a Mail Centre until they finish their shift and leave, 8 hours later?
An office’s local Health & Safety policy is one thing; clearly, turning up for work in open-toed sandals would be inappropriate. What constitutes PPE in the legal sense is strictly defined - and face coverings are not PPE (see link above)

[Woody Guthrie]

An office’s local Health & Safety policy is one thing

It's not local, it's national.

Royal Mail issue footwear is mandatory with exception where a medical condition prohibits the wearing of it.
Proof of that medical condition must be provided.
This applies to non-PPE footwear as well as PPE.

Royal Mail Footwear – Alternative Footwear Reimbursement Process – Medical/Health Reasons

See attached for the assistance of Branches and Health and Safety Reps the current Royal Mail Footwear – Alternative Footwear Reimbursement Process for those members who have an identified Medical/Health problem which as a result they can’t wear standard Royal Mail footwear.

In these circumstances the individual provides the line manager with supporting evidence of the medical reasons by way of a letter from a GP, Podiatrist, Chiropodist etc., following which the Business will pay any reasonable costs incurred up to a Maximum of £30 once the evidence has been reviewed and authorisation given by the RMG National Uniform Manager. Once authorised, footwear can be purchased in line with RMG Policy.

The minimum standards which must be applied with special authorised purchased footwear in this way are: – Colour: Black and Style: a formal lace up with a heel. The sole must have adequate grip properties. If it is PPE Footwear it must be ‘CE’ marked. The Manager will check the suitability once alternatives have been identified and selected. The member then purchases the alternative footwear and claims the £30 via PSP. (See flow-chart attached).

The point you make that masks are not PPE is irrelevant.
Like footwear they don't need to be to be mandatory and to require evidence for exemption.

[paulus103]

You may have to produce something or explain the situation

You have to provide evidence though that you are exempt

It's illegal for them to do that (DDA regs), that's why it doesn't get enforced on public transport and other places.

What the government should have done in the first place would have been to have all exemptions certified by a GP, with a lanyard issued that can only be issued by a GP. Then the police could have fined people not wearing a mask and shops, public transport would have been able to enforce it

Health & Safety reps in conjunction with Royal Mail have a policy where if somebody refuses to wear a facemask or similar item without providing a reason they are sent home without pay. This is the company policy and applies to both RM and agency staff.

[Woody Guthrie]

Health & Safety reps in conjunction with Royal Mail have a policy where if somebody refuses to wear a facemask or similar item without providing a reason they are sent home without pay.

I would humbly suggest that Health and Safety reps have no place implementing Royal Mail policy, their role with regards to members is to advise them of their rights and responsibilities, nothing more.

[paulus103]

Health & Safety reps in conjunction with Royal Mail have a policy where if somebody refuses to wear a facemask or similar item without providing a reason they are sent home without pay.

I would humbly suggest that Health and Safety reps have no place implementing Royal Mail policy, their role with regards to members is to advise them of their rights and responsibilities, nothing more.

I'm not a rep but work in RM admin

I myself don't particularly want to wear one but I do as of Monday - the Union responsibility is to protect its members so they agreed to support RM.
We've had 3 confirmed Covid cases this week so as part of that the Union branch sees this as protecting their members I'd imagine.

Anybody who didn't want to wear one and took it as far as they could I'd then assume they'd not have union support.

Anybody with a valid reason doesn't wear one - the conversation is private and brief.

I honestly think it is largely pointless as most people don't wear them properly but I understand and support both the union and RM.