What we waiting for???

[fishtank]

No I'm pointing out the inconsistencies in his posts that is all

That's fine rocky..but ask yourself this question.... do you ever point out the inconsistencies in anyone else's posts or is it,like i said...just a personal thing.

[rockytony67]

No I'm pointing out the inconsistencies in his posts that is all

That's fine rocky..but ask yourself this question.... do you ever point out the inconsistencies in anyone else's posts or is it,like i said...just a personal thing.

Well obviously I have nothing against Dvb as a person because I don't know the man, all I have to go on are his post's, and if you were a London postie like me you would take a dislike to what he says about us, and If the opportunity arise's have a dig back as for only pointing out his inconsistencies I think I pointed out a few in Night Tonics post's remember Fishtank all I've used in this thread are his words

[POSTMAN]

Can DV and rocky agree to disagree?

[dvbuk55]

No I'm pointing out the inconsistencies in his posts that is all

That's fine rocky..but ask yourself this question.... do you ever point out the inconsistencies in anyone else's posts or is it,like i said...just a personal thing.

Well obviously I have nothing against Dvb as a person because I don't know the man, all I have to go on are his post's, and if you were a London postie like me you would take a dislike to what he says about us, and If the opportunity arise's have a dig back as for only pointing out his inconsistencies I think I pointed out a few in Night Tonics post's remember Fishtank all I've used in this thread are his words

Well if there are inconsistencies then I apologise HOWEVER in order to put the record straight, this is my position on rejoining the union and backing industrial action:

Should the union decide to take on board national issues then I would

Should the union return to using its media access to publicly attack RM with a comprehensive program to refute RMs claims then I would

Should the union return to putting forward realistic claims for pay and conditions then I would

Should the union base a ballot on the compulsory redundancy in 3 London MCs then I wouldn't - that is a parochial issue, if the work is there then CRs isn't a problem and if it isn't RM are using the agreement as it is worded.............now is that inconsistent, or have some people got the wrong end of the stick.

As for my stance on London .......well it seems that there is always a special case to be made for the London CWU which does it no credit for what is a National union supported by national subs.

[Danelectro]

No I'm pointing out the inconsistencies in his posts

well point them out then.

Im more than willing to hit the gates over any CR in London or elsewhere ,but im in the minority and others will not change their mind unless there is more meat on the bones as you say, so if any ballot nationally wants to return a yes for IA then i suggest all postal workers in London keep up the pressure on HQ to come up with a plan that will unite the union and address the bad judgments they have made which in the last couple of years has turned the CWU into another layer of management with all the spin that goes with it.

Some of the issues that need to be addressed have been outlined in this thread,if some on here dont think they exist then
they can can kiss their jobs and the union goodbye.

As for whether London gets special treatment or not i suggest Dingo asks his fellow senior reps at the next national meeting
to stop spreading them if its not true.I heard the London gets special treatment thing from senior reps long before i found this site.

[Martin Walsh]

Daz the group Royal Mail are using in London"s case is Reids and they get paid on the basis of achiving Royal Mail"s plan. There track record is not good and they normally resove the numbers we are dealing with on complusory reduncnaices not in Royal Mail"s case when the agreement states there should be none.

Now Dvbuk the issue which the union will be asking the members to make a decision on will not be just on London but the wider job sercurity subject , it will also be on the fact Royal Mail are intending to introduce a new business plan which will mean more savings being made. Plus the fact that Royal Mail have ripped off the membership in terms of colleague share and the fact that Royal Mail"s delivery best praticse revisons including CDVs , IWT , geo route etc has failed and needs to be re-negotiated.

So you will be able to fight on more than just the complusory redundnaices. If thats what the CWU decide next wednesday.

[rockytony67]

Can DV and rocky agree to disagree?

I will if he will

And Danelectro there's no point me pointing out the inconsistencies I believe exist in Dv post's if you can't see them now, I believe they are there but you don't, so thats just the way of the world

The one thing I will say is the union has got it's self in a postion were they will really stuggle to get a yes vote, in a ballot for IA, I believe they will get it in London(if they go down that route) but my fear is RM will come out and say every person who lose's there job will be offered one in a delivery office,

now I know Dingo has said there will not be the vac's, but all RM have to do is offer it knowing that most of those offered will turn it down, and I'm already hearing people say in my office I will strike against CR but not if they are offered job's in delivery and turn them down, there's also a lot of bitterness over the fact we took 17 odd days strike action just to get back to the table and now it looks like they are pulling it away again,

I remember when people were asking question's about certain parts of the agreement, and no one was sure what certain things meant? we were always told Dave Ward and Higson know and are singing from the same sheet, will it looks like Higson has tucked Dave Ward up good and proper, I know a lot of people have a pop at Dave but he's an honorable man who's only trying to do his best by the membership, anyway the next few weeks will be interesting, the one thing the union can't do is call a ballot and lose it, they got away with it last time, but I don't think we will again.

[feduppostie]

ok seperate viewpoint here


let's say I'm a postie from ooop north

let's say i've worked here a year and i'm on a 25hr temporary contract

Let's say i'm using this job as a stopgap until the job market improves and I only intend staying for another year or so at most

do you seriously think I would go out on strike ( hypothetically speaking) to save someone's job in London?

No I wouldn't

This my friends is what you are up against

Royal Mail have played a blinder by creating a part time workforce on temporary contracts that haven't got the luxury of striking or worrying about long term job prospects or effects

so squabble all you like it will not change the fact that given a national ballot I don't think there would be a cat in hell's chance of getting a yes vote for IA

and I think the union know that and so will target London first and hope the rest of the country follow - if they don't well then that's that isn't it

but that's just my take on things

[TrueBlueTerrier]

I personally still think that the biggest elephant in the room at the moment is that most full time release reps have not worked under the current system (before DM revision) and therefore although they may indeed have a strong theoretical knowledge and indeed may even be well briefed by their members but they themselves do not have experience of it.

Book reading, briefing and understanding are all fine and well and have their place, but experience gives you an intimate knowledge which cannot be replicated except by doing it. In the forces all the good leaders never ask a subordinate to do something they are not willing to do - thoughts.

I hasten to add this is not meant to be a denigration of anyone least of all Dingo, merely I am restating an opinion. In fact although I do not agree with Dingo all of the time, I do respect that he is strong and forthright in defence of his members and that I will always applaud.

[feduppostie]

yeah have to add although sometimes I could tear my hair out at Dingo at least he has the balls to come on here time and time again and update us

[dvbuk55]

Daz the group Royal Mail are using in London"s case is Reids and they get paid on the basis of achiving Royal Mail"s plan. There track record is not good and they normally resove the numbers we are dealing with on complusory reduncnaices not in Royal Mail"s case when the agreement states there should be none.

Now Dvbuk the issue which the union will be asking the members to make a decision on will not be just on London but the wider job sercurity subject , it will also be on the fact Royal Mail are intending to introduce a new business plan which will mean more savings being made. Plus the fact that Royal Mail have ripped off the membership in terms of colleague share and the fact that Royal Mail"s delivery best praticse revisons including CDVs , IWT , geo route etc has failed and needs to be re-negotiated.

So you will be able to fight on more than just the complusory redundnaices. If thats what the CWU decide next wednesday.

I may be wrong but I believe that the same preference exercise was instituted when the North West MCs were closed and although there wasn't exactly compulsory redundancies it meant a great deal of travelling in order to keep their jobs and in some instances meant some hardship - I didn't hear talk of a ballot then. However notwithstanding what has gone before, the whole of the agreement was a disaster and the union were warned beforehand many times that this deal was a bad 'un and went ahead, now when London are affected there is suddenly an urgency to rectify ALL the ills of the agreement, which, to some cynics, may seem very coincidental. Will there be a curb on the PT recruitment that has been a feature for deliveries for some considerable time. Although not ideal it does make compulsory redundancies a greatly reduced threat to delivery offices, especially when the ratio is far far less than the nationally agreed 75/25%.

As for renegotiating the agreement isn't that exactly what Royal Mail want? If I may be so bold as a starting point for negotiations lets say we will not go ahead with any secret, third party chaperoned negotiations and as a gesture of good will RM will institute a 10% pay rise across the board...........I mean the last agreement was ridiculous so we may as well start with the sublime and work our way back.

[dvbuk55]

Feduppostie gives an excellent scenario of what the new world order has created in delivery offices.

Our office has about a 50/50 split since the new recruits in January, an additional 18 members, all of whom are part time, none members of the union and more salient is the fact that they haven't been approached to join. Add those to colleagues who are also part time and non members and you have about 35% of the office non members. These are people who are struggling to survive on 20,22,25 hour contracts knowing almost without exception they stand no chance of full time employment and pick up as many hours on overtime that they can. This is a situation that has been created by allowing RM to run wild with PT contracts and then having the gall to increase subs to people who have been sidelined by the union and that could prove very very costly if it should come to a ballot.

[feduppostie]

indeed dvbuk because then no matter what way a ballot goes there is a workforce ready and eager to earn the overtime should the need arise

and who can blame them 25 hrs a week and a strike? a chance to make all the overtime they want

no need for loyalty they only intend to be here a short while

like I said RM have played a blinder

( and just for clarification I do not blame any p/t posties should they choose this path )

[dvbuk55]

indeed dvbuk because then no matter what way a ballot goes there is a workforce ready and eager to earn the overtime should the need arise

and who can blame them 25 hrs a week and a strike? a chance to make all the overtime they want

no need for loyalty they only intend to be here a short while

like I said RM have played a blinder

( and just for clarification I do not blame any p/t posties should they choose this path )

Well, it doesn't bode well BUT in truth the last time we had a strike in 2009 very few crossed the picket line part timers and non union members included - there was more than the previous time and this time the new workforce has not experienced RM before the new agreement - there could be enough to run a skeleton service in some places, should it come to that and wouldn't that be exploited by RM.

[Danelectro]

As for renegotiating the agreement isn't that exactly what Royal Mail want?

I thought Dingos admission that IWT,Geo Route,needed a good look at/scrapped/whatever, was a step in the right
direction, whats your take on how to sort out present future revisions etc

Saying all that whatever comes out of any meetings/change from HQ /Ballots/IA i cant say im getting that lucky feeling so to speak,i thought it was the last chance saloon in 2009 and most seqels in the movies are never as good as the original Last Chance Saloon 2!