CWU have failed us.

[chelmsfordpostie]

That's what the dispute will be about. The union want protected terms and conditions for 10 years , rm have offered limited protection for 3. The cwu also wants those protections to be legally binding , otherwise any new owner could just rip those protections up. I'm really shocked that so many people don't seem to know what's going on. We've been kept fully informed , I think some of you need to speak to your local reps because some of them clearly aren't passing on the messages coming down from cwu hq.

[mandelsons_toenail]

That's what the dispute will be about. The union want protected terms and conditions for 10 years , rm have offered limited protection for 3. The cwu also wants those protections to be legally binding , otherwise any new owner could just rip those protections up. I'm really shocked that so many people don't seem to know what's going on. We've been kept fully informed , I think some of you need to speak to your local reps because some of them clearly aren't passing on the messages coming down from cwu hq.

[Budfrog]

It's all about long term T&Cs and the pension in my opinion and I include treating each and every employee with respect and having zero tolerance to B&H.

how long is long term T&Cs? This question needs to be addressed before IA.

The current terms and conditions should be held in perpetuity for current employees and there must be no erosion of wages, pension rights, holiday entitlement, sick benefit, hours of attendance ED/SA rates and seniority rights. You are not seeking improvements here ... just trying to keep hold of what you have at the moment.

[chelmsfordpostie]

Budfrog, whilst I wouldn't disagree with what you've said, I do think we have to realistic,to get 10 years protection would be groundbreaking on its own. To get them protected for life would have to go down as one of the best agreements a union has ever got. I'm not saying we shouldn't go for it but I do believe the union has to have a goal that the membership feels is achievable if not a lot of members will class the union as being dreamers and will switch off from the fight.

[fishtank]

The actual length of the legal protection is meaningless.
It's doubtful it would hold up in an employer friendly legal system anyway especially if those who signed it were no longer around and even more so if the company could cite real financial restrictions to continuing with the present terms.
What the whole thing amounts to is a statement of intent,nothing more.

If we really want to protect our terms and conditions going forward we will have to rely on the old fashioned method...fighting.
In case anyone hadn't noticed...that means now.

[Shambles]

The actual length of the legal protection is meaningless.
It's doubtful it would hold up in an employer friendly legal system anyway especially if those who signed it were no longer around and even more so if the company could cite real financial restrictions to continuing with the present terms.
What the whole thing amounts to is a statement of intent,nothing more.

If we really want to protect our terms and conditions going forward we will have to rely on the old fashioned method...fighting.
In case anyone hadn't noticed...that means now.

[chelmsfordpostie]

Fish tank, I think we re all aware we' ll have to fight. But just what do you propose we do at the moment , fight on tha back of them potentially destroying our terms and conditions. We have to have a strategy and the protection of of our terms and conditions is the obvious one. As for a legally binding agreement being ripped up, maybe so, but it certainly makes it harder for a new owner to change our terms and conditions than if we didn't have a legally binding agreement.

[fishtank]

As for a legally binding agreement being ripped up, maybe so, but it certainly makes it harder for a new owner to change our terms and conditions than if we didn't have a legally binding agreement.

There is a real danger that this legally binding agreement becomes the main focus of any industrial action....and any resolution.
It's a subplot,a distraction but it's being sold as the Magna Carta of collective agreements.

The destruction of our terms and conditions has already started.
Our pensions are being attacked now,delivery is a shambles now with the full-time/part time mix already way below agreed levels,bullying and harassment is rife now,the mailcentre rationalisation plan has been hijacked now,agreements are being ignored now.
I don't want an iffy maybe legal document protecting my terms for 5 years if we can't even protect them now.

[Danelectro]

As for a legally binding agreement being ripped up, maybe so, but it certainly makes it harder for a new owner to change our terms and conditions than if we didn't have a legally binding agreement.

There is a real danger that this legally binding agreement becomes the main focus of any industrial action....and any resolution.
It's a subplot,a distraction but it's being sold as the Magna Carta of collective agreements.

The destruction of our terms and conditions has already started.
Our pensions are being attacked now,delivery is a shambles now with the full-time/part time mix already way below agreed levels,bullying and harassment is rife now,the mailcentre rationalisation plan has been hijacked now,agreements are being ignored now.
I don't want an iffy maybe legal document protecting my terms for 5 years if we can't even protect them now.

Fish your sounding as if the end is nigh and cant say i blame you.I asked about length of legally binding because it now seems as you say its the answer to all our prayers but as you've pointed out over the years - legally binding agreements are usually avoided by unions.The problem with fighting on a year by year basis is we now have a union that likes to make agreements then kick back and issue joint statements and not a rank and file walk out the door union and no signs of that changing....anyway as usual my branch is missing in action and members are asking me what we are hoping to get from IA and at the moment all ive got is iffy maybe answers-a long term legally binding agreement is easy to sell but I dont wanna lead anyone down the garden path.

[UnhappyGremlin]

Gremlin, so you haven't any letters from the cwu sent to your home then ?. You haven't been online and signed the petition and you haven't seen the cwu on the tv?. Here's a suggestion, if your rep hasn't been up to you how about you going and asking him or her what's going on.

I've had one letter at home.
In fairness I don't watch the news, so haven't seen anything to do with it, and the union should not rely on TV alone to get the message across.
Go and ask the Rep? Never see them. One lad has been trying to get hold of them for a discipline matter, but they're never around.
In contrast, RM have bombarded us all, relentlessly, at home and at work. Every week we're forced (and I mean forced) to watch RM(P)TV, and it always mentions pay/privatisation.
We get letters 2 or 3 times a week at home.
The ratio in contact must be 20 to 1 in favour of RM.
In fact the last time I saw the Rep was when they were handing out the consultative ballot forms.
There isn't even any info on the union info board.

Quite frankly, we shouldn't have to ask, a letter keeping us updated once a fortnight would be enough.
Any union based info I've got has been from RMC, except for one letter from CWU. And RMC is an impartial site.
I don't think they've failed, but communication is important. And people at work are starting to swallow the RM propaganda, believing it too.

[chelmsfordpostie]

Well I've had three letters, one of which was in the voice, so your post must be going missing. If your rep isn't do his or her job, do something about it. I cam only assume if you never see your rep, he must be from another office. So why don't you stand for the position in your office . You also obviously use the Internet so why not visit the cwu website , you'll find out all you need to know. The point is though, it's not headquarters fault if your local rep isn't doing his job.

I know for a fact headquarters have told every branch and local rep that they have to go out and meet the membership,our reps have done it , I suggest you get yours to do what they're supposed to be doing too.

[chelmsfordpostie]

Fish tank, the ballot is on three issues , protecting our current terms and conditions with a legally binding agreement. This years pay deal and the PENSiON changes. So we are fighting the current attacks on our terms and conditions.

[chelmsfordpostie]

Fish tank, as for the other issues you raised, as you pointed out there's agreements in place to cover them. If they're being broken in your office , why isn't your local union doing anything. It's easy to blame he for everything but sometimes we have to do something locally.

[chelmsfordpostie]

One other thing , if we balloted on things such as the full time part time mix and bullying and harassment we'd struggle to get a yes vote. The reason being our local union makes sure rm abide by these agreements.

[fishtank]

One other thing , if we balloted on things such as the full time part time mix and bullying and harassment we'd struggle to get a yes vote. The reason being our local union makes sure rm abide by these agreements.

Good for you.
You locally have a decent FT/PT mix and you don't get bullied so you would struggle to get a yes vote and that means those issues don't exist or certainly don't warrant addressing?
Well end to end competition doesn't affect me but Billy and Dave have been screaming about it for long enough,should I just ignore them?
It's nice to see that solidarity isn't dead.

In June and July, the postal outdoor department at national CWU HQ received formal industrial action ballot requests for over 40 delivery offices, ranging from large and small units in cities, towns and even small villages, potentially including thousands of members.

“In the majority of cases, the disputes are being caused by managers attempting to
increase workloads outside of any national agreements in the pursuit of budgetary savings, which often results in members being bullied and harassed - even though we recently agreed a national joint statement to deal with this.

“If we don’t see a marked improvement very soon, we will have to take a different course of action,”

f**k them.
I'm alright....Jack.