The Future Of The Royal Mail:Chuka Umunna

[Tman]

I know he was really referring to North Sea oil, but since when has Scotland been able to lay claim to the North Sea? Do Jocks really believe anything this idiot says?

[fishtank]

I know he was really referring to North Sea oil, but since when has Scotland been able to lay claim to the North Sea?

Since the signing of the Convention on the Continental Shelf Agreement in 1964 at the first United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea establishing the rights of a sovereign state over the continental shelf surrounding it.

Article 1 of the convention defined the term shelf in terms of exploitability rather than relying upon the geological definition. It defined a shelf "to the seabed and subsoil of the submarine areas adjacent to the coast but outside the area of the territorial sea, to a depth of 200 metres or, beyond that limit, to where the depth of the superjacent waters admits of the exploitation of the natural resources of the said areas" or "to the seabed and subsoil of similar submarine areas adjacent to the coasts of islands".

How did you think the UK laid claim to North Sea Oil in the first place?

[Tman]

I know he was really referring to North Sea oil, but since when has Scotland been able to lay claim to the North Sea?

Since the signing of the Convention on the Continental Shelf Agreement in 1964 at the first United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea establishing the rights of a sovereign state over the continental shelf surrounding it.

Check the assigned zones out then. The five are UK, Germany, Netherlands, Norway and Denmark, and the UK's zone extends right around to the tip of Cornwall. Nowhere does it say "Scottish Zone" nor was any Scottish finance involved in the exploration and subsequent pumping of the crude oil.
Either way, Salmond wouldn't take on Exxon, Shell etc with any sort of Third World type of nationalisation plan for the oil industry. He's not that dumb..

[fishtank]

Nowhere does it say "Scottish Zone"

Obviously,we're not a sovereign nation.
If we become one,the bit that surrounds Scotland will be called the Scottish zone,that's an automatic right and not something that would be up for debate.

nor was any Scottish finance involved in the exploration and subsequent pumping of the crude oil.

If UK finance was involved through subsidies or tax breaks,by definition Scottish.English,Welsh and Northern Irish finance was involved.

Either way, Salmond wouldn't take on Exxon, Shell etc with any sort of Third World type of nationalisation plan for the oil industry. He's not that dumb..

The SNP has no plans to nationalise the oil and gas industry,where that came from I have no idea.

[Tman]

Obviously,we're not a sovereign nation.
If we become one,the bit that surrounds Scotland will be called the Scottish zone,that's an automatic right and not something that would be up for debate.

Call it whatever you like, but it doesn't mean automatic entry into the five-way division of the North Sea crude oil. It's a mighty big assumption to assume any oil rights or territory will be available.

If UK finance was involved through subsidies or tax breaks,by definition Scottish.English,Welsh and Northern Irish finance was involved.

Decades ago, maybe. How far do you want to go back with the "...and this bit's ours, too" stuff?

[fishtank]

Call it whatever you like, but it doesn't mean automatic entry into the five-way division of the North Sea crude oil. It's a mighty big assumption to assume any oil rights or territory will be available.

It's not an assumption at all.
It's the law.

http://www.un.org/depts/los/convention_ ... clos_e.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

1. The continental shelf of a coastal State comprises the seabed and
subsoil of the submarine areas that extend beyond its territorial sea
throughout the natural prolongation of its land territory to the outer edge of
the continental margin, or to a distance of 200 nautical miles from the
baselines from which the breadth of the territorial sea is measured where the
outer edge of the continental margin does not extend up to that distance.

Rights of the coastal State over the continental shelf

1. The coastal State exercises over the continental shelf sovereign
rights for the purpose of exploring it and exploiting its natural resources.
2. The rights referred to in paragraph 1 are exclusive in the sense that
if the coastal State does not explore the continental shelf or exploit its natural
resources, no one may undertake these activities without the express consent
of the coastal State.
3. The rights of the coastal State over the continental shelf do not
depend on occupation, effective or notional, or on any express proclamation.
4. The natural resources referred to in this Part consist of the mineral
and other non-living resources of the seabed and subsoil together with living
organisms belonging to sedentary species, that is to say, organisms which, at
the harvestable stage, either are immobile on or under the seabed or are
unable to move except in constant physical contact with the seabed or the
subsoil.

The rump UK would have absolutely no legal right to anything that came within the boundaries of the Scottish continental shelf.

[DirtyHarry]

Frankly, I cannot blame the Scots wanting to rid themselves of that corrupt den of thieves and liars, the Westminster parliament.

What's needed right now, is another, this time far more successful, Guy Fawkes, would do the UK as a whole, a great service.

[Tman]

Call it whatever you like, but it doesn't mean automatic entry into the five-way division of the North Sea crude oil. It's a mighty big assumption to assume any oil rights or territory will be available.

It's not an assumption at all.
It's the law.

Many things are "the law" but that doesn't mean they're foregone conclusions merely on the strength of the "written word" such as here. Things are rarely, if ever, that black and white, as many interminable law-suits prove, and if they were that easy, there'd be no need for legal advocates of any variety.
Probably many fat lawyers will get even fatter arguing the rights and wrongs of that one, and as has been mentioned before, the wealthy oil companies vs a relatively poor and powerless country is another less-than-foregone conclusion.

[taxi4leighton]

you miss the point.think how many scots live in remote and rural areas,they will be the worst affected by scrapping of USO.
promising to renationalise RM will not lose SNP any votes.it will help them gain some

[Tman]

It's a vote winner true enough, but you miss the point in that it's an empty promise and isn't going to happen...

[k979aaa]

Chuka Umunna can say what he wants at the end of the day if we strike long and hard enough the share price may be quite attractive to a future government.