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POSTMAN wrote:I'm actually curious why anyone would pump 3£billion or whatever into a company that is working in a constantly falling market.
No amount of cuts would generate MORE than £3billion in the medium to long term.
Well there are investors who would pay even more and the reason - asset stripping. You would be amazed at how much money would be made selling off the assets, buildings or land or both.
You would not believe the amount of saving to be made by hiving off parts of the company to smaller organisations for a fixed sum - if you think that is not possible, take a look at the power companies, transport - 2 years in you wouldn't recognise RM - 5 years in the service as it would be wouldn't be anything like it is now.
POSTMAN wrote:I'm actually curious why anyone would pump 3£billion or whatever into a company that is working in a constantly falling market.
No amount of cuts would generate MORE than £3billion in the medium to long term.
Well there are investors who would pay even more and the reason - asset stripping. You would be amazed at how much money would be made selling off the assets, buildings or land or both. What do you think's already been happening for the last several years?
That's why we're in the mess were in. Leighton and Crozier getting rich off slash and burn tactics. In particular the sale of RM buildings (from closing so many sites down). So our ability to shift the mail fast enough to meet our standards of 10 years ago is gone. People often get their mail after dinner now, and it's only likley to get worse if this continues.
Whatever happened to providing a quality service for the Public?
You would not believe the amount of saving to be made by hiving off parts of the company to smaller organisations for a fixed sum - if you think that is not possible, take a look at the power companies, transport - 2 years in you wouldn't recognise RM - 5 years in the service as it would be wouldn't be anything like it is now.
Don't knock Insanity
it's just another outlook on Reality!
andy2007 wrote:
What do you think's already been happening for the last several years?
That's why we're in the mess were in. Leighton and Crozier getting rich off slash and burn tactics. In particular the sale of RM buildings (from closing so many sites down). So our ability to shift the mail fast enough to meet our standards of 10 years ago is gone. People often get their mail after dinner now, and it's only likley to get worse if this continues.
Whatever happened to providing a quality service for the Public?
Andy,the speed and scale of closures,mergers and sell offs in the next 3 years will make Leighton and Crozier look like a couple of saints and if you throw privatisation into the mix you may end up looking back at their reign and wishing for more of the same.
Sadly I think you're right. But my point was, that it won't be anything we haven't seen before. The speed will increase, but the tactics won't. Which can only mean an acceleration of the drop in quality that we're capable of providing.
I don't know about you. But I can't see us continuing to make a profit beyond 2020. By then, there'll be little if anything left to sell, and our "competitors" will be in a position to set up their own end to end services. Which could match what we'll still be capable of providing by that stage. How long after that, do you think we'll be able to survive?
Don't knock Insanity
it's just another outlook on Reality!
i think that some people that have posted on this thread need to go to this thread and read this article-- http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... ip-workers" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.
this idea that privatisation is the only way , is surely the model which the Capitalist Elite through their media outlets like the Daily Mail etc like to trumpet and it is about time it was challenged. why cant the Royal Mail be run as a public company for the benefit of everyone ? the Government took a Pension payments holiday for many years and pocketed this money and just like they have bailed out their buddies in the banks , they should sort out this Pension deficit .
how important is it to the country and the economy to have an efficient Royal Mail doing its business ? the work we do , even though this work is mainly manual , is important to everyone. and not withstanding the reasonable jobs it creates and sustians, when lets face it jobs are in short supply.
i for one will be backing the Keep Royal Mail Public Campaign and while i am also realistic in whether it can be successful , i think it is worth the fight.
"why should it just be the bankers, politicians and the idle rich who get all the best things ? we demand a standard of living for our members that enables them to share in the fine wines and times that the likes of Cameron and his Eton buddies take for granted " - the late great Bob Crow RIP.
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yep nice spot TBT , while i cant imagine for one minute we the workers being allowed to set up some sort of workers council to run the RM !!, i think it should somehow be run for the benefit of everyone.
"why should it just be the bankers, politicians and the idle rich who get all the best things ? we demand a standard of living for our members that enables them to share in the fine wines and times that the likes of Cameron and his Eton buddies take for granted " - the late great Bob Crow RIP.
borders wrote:yep nice spot TBT , while i cant imagine for one minute we the workers being allowed to set up some sort of workers council to run the RM !!, i think it should somehow be run for the benefit of everyone.
Who exactly do you mean by "everyone"?
Individuals like Granny Smith sending a card to her grandchild means absolutely NOTHING to Royal Mail - when Royal Mail talks customer - they are talking corporate bodies sending hundreds of thousands of items of mail a year.
Although there is a huge hue and cry about the "John Lewis Partnership" from the CWU it is probably closer to the workers council model you advocate.
borders wrote:yep nice spot TBT , while i cant imagine for one minute we the workers being allowed to set up some sort of workers council to run the RM !!, i think it should somehow be run for the benefit of everyone.
Who exactly do you mean by "everyone"?
Individuals like Granny Smith sending a card to her grandchild means absolutely NOTHING to Royal Mail - when Royal Mail talks customer - they are talking corporate bodies sending hundreds of thousands of items of mail a year.
Although there is a huge hue and cry about the "John Lewis Partnership" from the CWU it is probably closer to the workers council model you advocate.
the USO encompasses everyone and the workers council is something the author mentions.
"why should it just be the bankers, politicians and the idle rich who get all the best things ? we demand a standard of living for our members that enables them to share in the fine wines and times that the likes of Cameron and his Eton buddies take for granted " - the late great Bob Crow RIP.
borders wrote:yep nice spot TBT , while i cant imagine for one minute we the workers being allowed to set up some sort of workers council to run the RM !!, i think it should somehow be run for the benefit of everyone.
Who exactly do you mean by "everyone"?
Individuals like Granny Smith sending a card to her grandchild means absolutely NOTHING to Royal Mail - when Royal Mail talks customer - they are talking corporate bodies sending hundreds of thousands of items of mail a year.
Although there is a huge hue and cry about the "John Lewis Partnership" from the CWU it is probably closer to the workers council model you advocate.
the USO encompasses everyone and the workers council is something the author mentions.
Yes the USO may well encompass everyone and in that respect it IS universal - BUT - the pricing structure favours big business and Royal Mail follow the money - take tracked items for example - why don't you pop down to the Post Office and send a tracked parcel at a very favourable price, well it would be nice but you can't because only business users are privy to that facility.
borders wrote:yep nice spot TBT , while i cant imagine for one minute we the workers being allowed to set up some sort of workers council to run the RM !!, i think it should somehow be run for the benefit of everyone.
Who exactly do you mean by "everyone"?
Individuals like Granny Smith sending a card to her grandchild means absolutely NOTHING to Royal Mail - when Royal Mail talks customer - they are talking corporate bodies sending hundreds of thousands of items of mail a year.
Although there is a huge hue and cry about the "John Lewis Partnership" from the CWU it is probably closer to the workers council model you advocate.
the USO encompasses everyone and the workers council is something the author mentions.
Yes the USO may well encompass everyone and in that respect it IS universal - BUT - the pricing structure favours big business and Royal Mail follow the money - take tracked items for example - why don't you pop down to the Post Office and send a tracked parcel at a very favourable price, well it would be nice but you can't because only business users are privy to that facility.
And therein lies the problem for a lot of us. Many of my collegues (and of course myself) joined RM to help provide an important service to the public. And it goes against the grain to ignore them, in favour of more lucrative customers.
I know that we're a business now. And as such "profit is King". But it doesn't make it morally right to ignore the people that Royal Mail was set up to serve. Businesses have always had the means to send parcels and letters, wherever they needed to go. They used messengers and couriers. But that was a luxury that few ordinary members of the public could afford.
Don't knock Insanity
it's just another outlook on Reality!
andy2007 wrote:And therein lies the problem for a lot of us. Many of my collegues (and of course myself) joined RM to help provide an important service to the public. And it goes against the grain to ignore them, in favour of more lucrative customers.
I know that we're a business now. And as such "profit is King". But it doesn't make it morally right to ignore the people that Royal Mail was set up to serve. Businesses have always had the means to send parcels and letters, wherever they needed to go. They used messengers and couriers. But that was a luxury that few ordinary members of the public could afford.
At the end of the day it is just a job now. I know exactly where you are coming from, 20 years ago it was a service, but not now. It has become a business and in truth none too profitable and certainly not as pleasant a place to work as it once was, with people who are not as committed as staff used to be.
The facts have to be faced, and as critical as I am of the CWU they have faced the reality of what the company has become. It concerns itself with high profile business and I am sure would branch out into other avenues IF it was privatised and would certainly try to hive off those aspects of the business that wasn't too profitable.
http://www.royalmailchat.co.uk/communit ... 38&t=28415" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;