CWU Cannot Reverse Pension Reform

[mucker]

The CWU ballot on Royal Mail pensions rolls on. I have more than a hunch that the CWU made a major blunder during the last pay deal talks and over the next few weeks, it will become abundantly clear that that is exactly what has happened.

Royal Mail gave the assurance to CWU leader Bill Hayes that workers opinions would be taken into account and the CWU would be consulted. Hayes interpretaion of that was that nothing would be pushed through without his and Dave Ward's say so and the pair of them went off smiling, thinking everything was fine and they had set the pension apart from the pay deal. The pay deal was ratified with that impression.

The fact is, Royal Mail HAS consulted workers - it invited everyone to put forward their views and it has talked to the CWU. I'll admit its not what the CWU thought would happen, but when this is presented to the Trustees, Royal Mail will in fact have met the meaning of the consultation process in full and it will probably be accepted on that basis. This is precisely what Hayes said in a recent circular to reps. It is peppered with bullet points and makes it plain that the CWU isn't exactly happy abut the pension revision, but if you go through it, CWU HQ don't appear to have any weight to object to this - other than a threat of upping their campaign - whatever that means.

Royal Mail will have consulted with some of the sharpest solicitors around and it is unlikely that the CWU will have matched that level of expertise. Whether it was down to limited finances or poor legal advisors on the CWU's part is unimportant, but RM have never at any point said that they would let the CWU decide on how the pension issue shoud be solved - not in any official statement or even in the wording of the finalised pay deal.

We already have at least one example where last year, the CWU had to cover their tracks when the notice given of one bout of inustrial action did not comply with the law and Royal Mail were not only quick to pick up on it, they filed an injunction. The legal advisors that Royal Mail use are very hot on wording and small print and in my view, the CWU was in way out of its depth last year. We had a long phase of both sides refusing to budge until one particular meeting - after which the CWU suddenly changed its tune. You go figure that one, but chances are, Royal Mail laid out the figures that showed the whole picture in terms that Hayes and Ward could understand and they then realised that the strikes were not going to get them anywhere. The deal was closed fairly quickly after that.

Theres also the problem of lost business every time there is a strike. If workers decide to engage in one-day stoppages or head for picket lines, Royal Mail will lose more contracts through downstream access - not to mention the support of customers.

The CWU will continue to make lots of noise, as indeed it has to, but the most workers can expect is a small sweetener after private meetings between the CWU and RM bosses. Despite the talk of strikes, few workers see any merit in another and even if they did, it won't change the need to restructure a pension scheme in massive debt. Royal Mail's pension scheme isn't the only one struggling and many have collapsed - few if any of those people will see their money again. Like the last deal, Hayes will do his best to find some small nugget to present to CWU members as evidence of victory but thats about all.

The hard-liners are tough enough to march enmasses with Burslem blowing in their hair, but Royal Mail isn't the only operator out there now any more. It may be the biggest final mile service but it is already delivering mail for other companes at less profit - it really doesn't take a genius to see that the trend will continue and at an even faster pace if workers opt to stand outside delivery offices doing nothing.

Things might have been very different if Royal Mail was the only mail handler operating in the UK but with new postal operator licences being applied for and Postcomm looking to deregulate even further, Royal Mail is fighting for business.

Postcomm are presently inviting other operators to contribute to the discussion, and with even talk of splitting Royal Mail, any down-time will ultimately backfire on those keen to return to the battlefields. Even if workers voted to strike, I fail to see what they can possibly achieve by it. Striking won't plug the pension deficit but you can vote for unemployment I guess.

http://www.hellmail.co.uk/postalnews/te ... 1&zoneid=5

© Hellmail.co.uk (11 March 2008)

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Wow is this a cut and paste from a certain site as I am sure I read that word for word on there.

[539]

a very reasoned argument well done.

[mucker]

Wow is this a cut and paste from a certain site as I am sure I read that word for word on there.

ok so what will we get by taking industrial action then

[DGP1]

Wow is this a cut and paste from a certain site as I am sure I read that word for word on there.

ok so what will we get by taking industrial action then

I personally get a warm feeling down in the cockles of my soul, that and it slightly annoys the managers (which is nice)

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Wow is this a cut and paste from a certain site as I am sure I read that word for word on there.

ok so what will we get by taking industrial action then

Wasn't arguing against your point just pointing out that I read that on another site. Sorry if that upset you. I personally would support a strike or other form of IA if that was the democratic decision, after all that's why I joined the union. On a purely personal basis I have not been in this pension plan for it to effect me very much and I have enough other pension, even 1 which I am drawing on already so the changes will have very little effect on me.

However, as I disagree with the plan I can vote against it. If the CWU ballot for IA I will make my mind up whether or not I will vote for a strike.

To answer your general question we might not got anything, that is the risk. But if you disagree with something strong enough why not do everything in your power and within your beliefs to stop it or at least make a stand against it. It may be a futile and self defeating gesture but its better than doing nothing. I would rather loose knowing I did what I thought was right, rather than just accept I cant make a difference and do nothing.

[DirtyHarry]

It's when we strike that the sheer dishonesty about this so-called competitive market is fully exposed. TNT, Business Post, UK Mail, et al, may have
their logo's in the top right hand corner of an envelope, but that's about it. No mail moves when we come out fighting. I've never seen this so-called
competition out in all weathers delivering, using their own postmen..............The result of us doing nothing will only enbolden Royal Fail, and we can
most assuredly expect those leeches to come back at some point in the future and make further cuts to our retirement fund, meanwhile, they'll no
doubt continue to ring-fence theirs, avoiding what they'll impose on us.
Now, remind me, who failed to keep up their contributions for nearly two decades?

[BELIAL]

Not worthy of a reasoned response ,pure propaganda ,utter bollocks.
See you all on the picket line

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Wow is this a cut and paste from a certain site as I am sure I read that word for word on there.

It was and so we don't break copyright laws I have pasted a link and copyright notice as requested on Hellmails website. Would everyone who copies articles from Hellmail please do the same:

I have however left the same spelling errors in the article that Bathboy did.

http://www.hellmail.co.uk/postalnews/te ... 1&zoneid=5

© Hellmail.co.uk (11 March 2008)

[mucker]

Wow is this a cut and paste from a certain site as I am sure I read that word for word on there.

ok so what will we get by taking industrial action then

Wasn't arguing against your point just pointing out that I read that on another site. Sorry if that upset you. I personally would support a strike or other form of IA if that was the democratic decision, after all that's why I joined the union. On a purely personal basis I have not been in this pension plan for it to effect me very much and I have enough other pension, even 1 which I am drawing on already so the changes will have very little effect on me.

However, as I disagree with the plan I can vote against it. If the CWU ballot for IA I will make my mind up whether or not I will vote for a strike.

To answer your general question we might not got anything, that is the risk. But if you disagree with something strong enough why not do everything in your power and within your beliefs to stop it or at least make a stand against it. It may be a futile and self defeating gesture but its better than doing nothing. I would rather loose knowing I did what I thought was right, rather than just accept I cant make a difference and do nothing.

yeh good ideal we will get shafted again,just like the pay and modernization deal.remind me what we went on strike for . just like the last two national strikes

[DirtyHarry]

Wow is this a cut and paste from a certain site as I am sure I read that word for word on there.

It was and so we don't break copyright laws I have pasted a link and copyright notice as requested on Hellmails website. Would everyone who copies articles from Hellmail please do the same:

I have however left the same spelling errors in the article that Bathboy did.

http://www.hellmail.co.uk/postalnews/te ... 1&zoneid=5

© Hellmail.co.uk (11 March 2008)

Good Lord ! Is that God-awful site still running? These middle class, let's keep the workers down-trodden, they should be grateful we tolerate
them, types......Boy ! they don't let up, do they?

[DirtyHarry]

Wow is this a cut and paste from a certain site as I am sure I read that word for word on there.

ok so what will we get by taking industrial action then

Wasn't arguing against your point just pointing out that I read that on another site. Sorry if that upset you. I personally would support a strike or other form of IA if that was the democratic decision, after all that's why I joined the union. On a purely personal basis I have not been in this pension plan for it to effect me very much and I have enough other pension, even 1 which I am drawing on already so the changes will have very little effect on me.

However, as I disagree with the plan I can vote against it. If the CWU ballot for IA I will make my mind up whether or not I will vote for a strike.

To answer your general question we might not got anything, that is the risk. But if you disagree with something strong enough why not do everything in your power and within your beliefs to stop it or at least make a stand against it. It may be a futile and self defeating gesture but its better than doing nothing. I would rather loose knowing I did what I thought was right, rather than just accept I cant make a difference and do nothing.

yeh good ideal we will get shafted again,just like the pay and modernization deal.remind me what we went on strike for . just like the last two national strikes

So, you advocate rolling-over and dying, accepting anything and everything these leeches throw at you?

[stubaby]

Wow is this a cut and paste from a certain site as I am sure I read that word for word on there.

ok so what will we get by taking industrial action then

Wasn't arguing against your point just pointing out that I read that on another site. Sorry if that upset you. I personally would support a strike or other form of IA if that was the democratic decision, after all that's why I joined the union. On a purely personal basis I have not been in this pension plan for it to effect me very much and I have enough other pension, even 1 which I am drawing on already so the changes will have very little effect on me.

However, as I disagree with the plan I can vote against it. If the CWU ballot for IA I will make my mind up whether or not I will vote for a strike.

To answer your general question we might not got anything, that is the risk. But if you disagree with something strong enough why not do everything in your power and within your beliefs to stop it or at least make a stand against it. It may be a futile and self defeating gesture but its better than doing nothing. I would rather loose knowing I did what I thought was right, rather than just accept I cant make a difference and do nothing.

yeh good ideal we will get shafted again,just like the pay and modernization deal.remind me what we went on strike for . just like the last two national strikes

So, you advocate rolling-over and dying, accepting anything and everything these leeches throw at you?

[mucker]

Wow is this a cut and paste from a certain site as I am sure I read that word for word on there.

ok so what will we get by taking industrial action then

Wasn't arguing against your point just pointing out that I read that on another site. Sorry if that upset you. I personally would support a strike or other form of IA if that was the democratic decision, after all that's why I joined the union. On a purely personal basis I have not been in this pension plan for it to effect me very much and I have enough other pension, even 1 which I am drawing on already so the changes will have very little effect on me.

However, as I disagree with the plan I can vote against it. If the CWU ballot for IA I will make my mind up whether or not I will vote for a strike.

To answer your general question we might not got anything, that is the risk. But if you disagree with something strong enough why not do everything in your power and within your beliefs to stop it or at least make a stand against it. It may be a futile and self defeating gesture but its better than doing nothing. I would rather loose knowing I did what I thought was right, rather than just accept I cant make a difference and do nothing.

yeh good ideal we will get shafted again,just like the pay and modernization deal.remind me what we went on strike for . just like the last two national strikes

So, you advocate rolling-over and dying, accepting anything and everything these leeches throw at you?

no i do not,however what will we achieve by taking industrial action.i say again what did we achieve in the past i have over the last 3 national strikes lost a large amount of money and for what??????????????

[BELIAL]

Wow is this a cut and paste from a certain site as I am sure I read that word for word on there.

ok so what will we get by taking industrial action then

Wasn't arguing against your point just pointing out that I read that on another site. Sorry if that upset you. I personally would support a strike or other form of IA if that was the democratic decision, after all that's why I joined the union. On a purely personal basis I have not been in this pension plan for it to effect me very much and I have enough other pension, even 1 which I am drawing on already so the changes will have very little effect on me.

However, as I disagree with the plan I can vote against it. If the CWU ballot for IA I will make my mind up whether or not I will vote for a strike.

To answer your general question we might not got anything, that is the risk. But if you disagree with something strong enough why not do everything in your power and within your beliefs to stop it or at least make a stand against it. It may be a futile and self defeating gesture but its better than doing nothing. I would rather loose knowing I did what I thought was right, rather than just accept I cant make a difference and do nothing.

yeh good ideal we will get shafted again,just like the pay and modernization deal.remind me what we went on strike for . just like the last two national strikes

So, you advocate rolling-over and dying, accepting anything and everything these leeches throw at you?

no i do not,however what will we achieve by taking industrial action.i say again what did we achieve in the past i have over the last 3 national strikes lost a large amount of money and for what??????????????

Beaten into submission then? Turned into a servile lacky ,little Adam will be made up to hear that